Dog crates are cruel

Crates are fabulous when used properly. My pup came to us already used to a crate, and we had the appropriate size for him. As he grew, we got a much larger crate to allow him to move around, stretch etc. All the way through his chewing stage it was the only way to keep him alive! He was hell bent on chewing cables for a short while until we got him trained out of it. And contrary to some posters views, training can take time and takes longer than 1 day - and leaving this pup unattended all night was a recipe for disaster.

No dog should be in a crate all day (unless the stupid thing has needed an op after damaging his leg and on rest by vet instruction). 8 hours a day I agree is cruel. But no problem for 8 hours or so over night when they are sleeping anyway, or an hour or so here and there to do the school run or supermarket shop. It was certainly the safest option for our wee monster till he could be trusted.

@PoliteSquid sometimes people shoot other people with guns... but that doesn't mean that guns are muderers.

Your argument can be used for many different things/situations, but when there are more than a very few cases of a connection - in your case - between an cage and a dog having great harm done to it, or in my scenario, between a gun and it being used to maim or even kill one or more people, then I'm afraid that your statement holds no water, and therefore, is of no value. Sorry to be so blunt!

So sometimes appropriate action needs to be taken to avoid, or even stop, such sad and/or negative outcomes. In the USA, far too many people believe that it is both their right - which according to their consitition it is - and a neccesity, to be allowed to bear arms for their own personal safety. But that has become a scaringly, toxic, vicious circle, and very difficult to change now.

I was stuck by the other animal cruelty case in NI where a starving Labrador dog was found caught in a window blind after trying to escape from a house.
We have dog licensing here but something still isn't working.
I use a crate for my recently rehomed spaniel but only at night time.Its like any other training tool, it can be misused horribly.

All dogs need a place they can go and chill and know they won’t be disturbed. A crate can work for that, as long as they can get out when they wish.

I saw that too. If a dog soiled a crate, they would have had to be left in there for hours and hours on end and ignored when they cried to be let out (to relieve themselves). And there is the neglect - it’s not the crate, it’s the owner not responding to their dog’s needs.

My dog would howl if she was left in the house alone for 12 hours, because after that long she would be lonely, hungry and would need to wee (she is trained not to wee in the house so would only do it if she had no choice). It wouldn’t be the house that was cruel, it would be me as an owner neglecting her!

I could never do this to a dog . I had to do it on vets orders for weeks when my dog broke a limb and he cried a lot , it was just heartbreaking . It was to allow the limb to heal . I know dogs can be trained to be used to it but I don’t think that makes it right .

I think people who have never crate trained don’t understand how they can be used in training.

Someone said upthread “if they soil their crate.” Thats the whole point of using a crate for toilet training. They won’t soil in their den where they sleep.

Only abusive owners will leave a dog in a crate for 12 hours a day, let it out for the toilet and then have it in there again overnight. I am sure that they are in the minority of crate users.

Exactly. We can’t say that “dogs are pack animals” and try to enforce on everyone that the dog must not be left without human company for a second, while advocating for everything we chose to do to them to make their lives healthier and more comfortable.

If we chose to have a dog, we chose to do all those things to keep them safe.

My dog prefers to be off lead too. Tough, she can’t be all the time, it wouldn’t be safe.

Crates are no different to anything else we do.

I still believe it’s how the crate is used that is the crucial bit. Used correctly or for good reason, i just don’t believe they’re cruel.

When I was a kid I had a friend whose parents got a border terrier. When the dog wasn’t being walked or fed, it was kept in a crate. I used to think “why have a dog?”. It spend most of its life in that crate. I think a lot people who disapprove of crates imagine they are used in this way. In reality I think most people use them sparingly and would never leave a dog in one if they were distressed.

Another good point, there’s loads of things my dog doesn’t have a choice over including having operations, vaccinations or medication - sometimes these things cause her physical pain but I do it because I think it’s in her best interests to keep her safe and healthy. She wouldn’t willingly go to the vet, I make her go. She would probably prefer to go for walks without being on a lead but IMO it would be irresponsible of me to take the risk of her running into a busy road.

And actually, my dog didn’t have a choice in the matter.

I have to keep her safe and train her. I’m sure as a puppy she would have loved free reign to piss everywhere and chew anything she wanted, even if it was dangerous.

The crate was a training tool and place of safety when she couldn’t be watched, or she needed a calm space.

Well, I did close the door to keep my then puppy confined.

We had a fantastic routine for toilet training/play/sleep. She’s the 5th golden retriever I’ve had in my life and the only one I’ve used a crate with (the breeder had introduced crates, a lot of her dogs go off for show, so she had crates in the rooms the puppies are in from day one for them to go in and out of as they please, by the time she came to us at 12 weeks, she was used to short periods in a crate, saw the one we had for her and jumped in happily).

We thought we would give it a go this time and it’s been great. She’s now a very happy 2 year old and we no longer use one, unless in the car or on holiday.

Do you think she was screaming and crying and clawing to get out or something? She went in the crate, the door was closed, she went to sleep.

I didn’t want her getting out when she wasn’t supervised.

I didn’t want her wandering the house at night when she wasn’t supervised. I don’t allow dogs in bedrooms.

Crates really help some dogs feel calm and safe. It really helped with training mine.

ETA - my toddler likes her nursery, but they keep the doors locked so she can’t wander out. Just because you shut a cage door, it doesn’t mean the animal is trapped and is hating every second. You just don’t want them wandering out when they haven’t got your full attention.

Dare I say it, I think it’s the lazy way out.

Possibly! But it works for us and our dog. I have enough other stuff in my life that can't be avoided by taking a lazy way out. This keeps her safe and contented.

Exactly and it seems nobody can answer this point. Why do they need to close the door if not to keep them confined? Then to say they like it there, well doesn’t seem they have much choice in the matter.

I think a lot of owners try to convince themselves being kept in a crate (cage) is ok because the alternative is to admit it’s cruel.

I’ve had two dogs and neither has ever been put in a crate. Dare I say it, I think it’s the lazy way out.

This is a good point because we do shut doors when we want the dog to stay in one room, be it the kitchen or the living room. Sometimes we’re bringing in shopping from the car or doing a deep clean or decorating - situations where we don’t want her under our feet so put her in a safer room out of the way. Is that not ok? Are we cruel? She can’t be with us every second of the day. We have to nip out sometimes to the supermarket or do the school run, she can’t always come with us. We would never leave her longer than a couple of hours (DH predominantly works from home) but there are times she has to be left at home alone. Are we neglecting her?

We’ve never really allowed her upstairs as we don’t want her in our bed. I know a few people whose dogs slept in bed with them and started to become territorial and aggressive about the bed. One woman had a dog who wouldn’t let her husband get back in bed if he went to the toilet during the night. The dog became aggressive and bit him a few times when he tried to get in his own bed, so he would have to sleep in the spare room. They had it put down eventually because they couldn’t get control of the situation. To me that is madness. It works for us that Ddog has her sleeping area and we have ours. In the early days when we first brought her home I slept on the sofa in the room with her until she settled, she’s been fine ever since.

I know there always one PP like this…sigh.

Well I certainly know more than you.

But then so does a gold fish judging by your comments on this thread.

😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

They CAN stretch their legs as we have said repeatedly. They can stand up turn around and choose one end or the other. They can have water, food, a kong, toys, whatever you choose to put in. Ours had a big lump of wood to chew in lieu of our table legs. Crates are big relative to the dog. And if you go out the only thing your dog does is sleep till you get back. They get up and stretch then turn around and settle back down. OP do you even have a dog as you know precious little about dogs or crates.

Why does my dog choose his crate when he has other beds scattered around the house?

He chose to sleep on a cool, tiled floor during the hot weather. Now, he has chosen to sleep in his crate again.

The crate is huge. I want to get rid of it. Please advise how I should proceed. Do I keep the crate to please the dog? Or should I dismantle it regardless of his feelings?

I hate them. Our puppy was frantic when we had to put her in there. We didn't use one for long and she's been a happy, non chewing and just a bit excitable dog since! What bothers me is that a dog will be absolutely distressed if someone leaves them in there for a long time, if they don't have water ( or food) , or if they soiled the cage. They have no way of escaping if there's a fire too. At least, they might stand a chance if they're out and can find an opening through a door or window. Or come barking at the door where someone might hear them. Im my opinion, they're awful.

If you have a crate where your dog can’t stretch, you have the wrong size crate.

And hyper dogs can find crates calming. It’s a dark, quiet space like a den, away from distractions. You can teach them to switch off and relax.

For example, my dog was terrified of workmen when she was younger. We had an incident which required a couple of weeks of workmen in and out of the house.

She could have just been distressed, OR, I could have put her crate upstairs in a quiet room, blanket over the top, put her in there and she felt safe to chill out.

Thats what happened. And she was happy rather than yelping.

And as far as training, yes, we trained her not to be afraid, eventually, but while people were there, rectifying my ceiling that had fallen in and trying to do their jobs, it wasn’t the time to. She was far happier in a crate in a quiet room while I was in and out sorting things out.

She doesn't need entertainment at night. She's asleep.

She's also small enough to stand up fully and sprawl out fully in it (though she usually curls up into the corner anyway).

They can like it and also just randomly decide to chew on a skirting board and hurt themselves at 2am.

The same reason my children slept in cots and no just on the living room floor unattended.

I wanted to make sure my dog was safe as a puppy when I wasn’t with her.