To think our public transport system needs a complete overhaul?

Car parks next to mainline train stations all over the UK can be £10 per day or more, so no real difference, just a lot less convenient to drive to the station and park there, compared with just driving to your destination. (Especially if your destination station isn't close to where you actually want to go, so you need transport at the other end too!).

@Flamingojune No one ever calculates depreciation if they own a car or maintenance costs. Ok if it’s a company car but not everyone has one. Travelling by train is often cheaper but obviously limits where you can go. Parking in London is £10 plus so taking a car to London is often an issue plus there are huge restrictions and costs with additional charges.

So the car was free?

Is it really the fault of our public transport system that some idiot lorry driver doesn't know the height of his vehicle? Roads in the vicinity were probably gridlocked too.

People will switch modes if another becomes more convenient.

I got a free bus pass last year and due to this I have swapped car for bus for a lot of journeys within my city. I don't have to find parking (which is becoming extortionate in some areas), I don't have to figure out my route through the ever-more-complex road changes and roadworks, I can just sit and relax and read mumsnet. I am near a bus stop though, with buses in several directions.

I've also used it once or twice outside the city, but for most journeys the car is much faster and wins out.

We could transfer funds from the road budget - expanding roads doesn’t ease congestion (as is often promised) as due to induced demand it just leads to more people travelling.

Nottingham used a workplace parking levy to fund their trams - it was massively unpopular with opposition from businesses (who later changed their minds because the trams work).

It is just a question of choice - there are lots of politicians etc calling for various road expansion schemes across the country. Sadly, they are unlikely to deliver what is hoped & some are problematic (eg smart motorways). That money would be better spent on rail & other public transport.

I also think that a better way to look at it on a broader base than individual choice. Of course people want to drive - it’s the easy choice - but we can’t all drive as there isn’t enough space. As soon as there is congestion or other problems then traffic / transport needs to be managed. People will switch modes if another becomes more convenient. Certainly, where I live there are some people very vocal on social media re their right to drive - but even they tend to complain about schoolchildren being driven to school because the roads are too busy.

But often still faster, even with jams- eg to get to my parents takes 1:45 to drive, 3:30 public transport door to door ( 2 trains, 1 bus). This is along the south coast urban strip. The longest it’s ever taken me to drive is 3 hrs and that’s through summer traffic in Chichester and when the A31 was closed due to the fire so I had to drive through the forest. So even sitting in abnormally terrible traffic is quicker than PT running to time.

Re the cost, I already own the car. Unless public transport nationwide became as comprehensive as London I’d likely always have one, so the car is a sunk cost. My cost decision re drive or take the train for an individual journey is down to ticket vs fuel and parking plus convenience, and that’s currently hard to justify on most journeys unless you know where you’re going weeks in advance and can book the really cheap advance fares.

I want to be clear I’m not anti public transport as a concept. I use it where it’s convenient- if I’m going to London on my own I always get the train, for example. I just think it’s difficult to see where we would get the funds to upgrade the UK public transport system to a state which could significantly reduce car ownership (ie people think “I don’t need a car at all”), or fares to a level which would persuade people who already own cars to use them significantly less.

It would be great if privatisation worked as it should. So as a consumer I can decide to take the 7:01 with company x or the 7:03 with company y and eventually company X realises it needs to pull its socks up because their competitor is winning.

The tendering every 5-10 years doesn't work does it?

People need to pay more tax to fund travel & the NHS. They won’t! Xo

next to a smelly/farty/creepy guy eating egg sandwiches, and a toilet that doesn't work/is permanently logged due to someone taking drugs/hiding from the conductor in it.

At least in your car you are sitting comfortably, can control the smell, temperature, noise, whether you have any passengers, can usually take an alternate route if needed, can get on/off the road if you need the loo...

it honestly scares me that these people have actual degrees in urban planning or whatever.

My friend's city is replacing their park and ride with a giant data centre, while talking about introducing a clean air charge for commuters to meet their green targets - i.e. all the people THEY have forced into driving who were previously happily getting the bus!

The council increase the cost of parking then wonder why so many people avoid the city centre and shop in outlets. Then shops shut down due to lack of footfall. This results in a gap in their budget due to reduced business rates...so they increase parking again to cover it 🙈

But even for one person, it can be cheaper to drive than take the train.

Meanwhile, for two of us to visit our daughter, we can

a) fly, £90 return including transfers, a bit quicker than the train even with waiting around at airports. This is for underseat luggage only.
b) drive, about £120 return. A tedious 7 hrs or so.
c) take the train, an average of 7 hrs each way door to door, but a staggering £250 return fare for two, after the railcard discount.

Train should be the cheapest, and it should be affordable, but it's neither. If the price were comparable to the other modes of transport it would be our preferred option.

Most cars aren't carrying four people. I believe that 1.5 is the average.

You don't live in "Northern Rail" land then.

But once you have one, you work on the marginal cost basis rather than sunk cost or average cost. The decision on whether to buy a car in the first place depends on lots of different needs and other factors.

Thankfully not as common as traffic jams - in my experience

Cars aint cheap to buy or run

But only marginally whereas the costs of using a car for 4 people is virtually the same as for one person, so makes more sense if you have a car. Even with a railcard, the fares will almost certainly be a lot more than the petrol and parking costs.

Hell is also standing cramped in vestibules on delayed trains for a few hours.

rail cards reduce fairs for families

Hell is sitting in a traffic jam in a small metal box

@DdraigGoch Isn't also that TOCs have relied on staffing Sunday trains using overtime rather than Sunday specific contracts and overtime has been sought after enough/generous enough to mean enough people were always keen to do it. However with an aging workforce that might be it is less attractive now.

Ah yes, you reminded me the other thing about my local rural bus service - none of the bus routes even go to the nearest train station! 🙄

It's got fuck all to do with the unions. Northern don't employ enough staff to run their services without recourse to overtime. To resolve that needs funding and time - because they need to hire enough staff and train them. They've had neither.