AIBU to think parents should lose benefits /homes for persistently antisocial children?

West London and East Berkshire. I was also sent out to different places and projects sometimes, Birmingham and East Midlands

I mean I agree in theory. If you’ve brought up a teen who hangs around on the street waiting to intimidate people and say lift your leg higher cunt, then you really have done a shitty job of parenting.

Easier than taking benefits/housing would be passport confiscation. Followed by driving licence confiscation.

That’s really not what the OP is saying and I suspect you know that. Nobody is saying that only the children of those on benefits are the ones causing issues, but in the cases where they are, yes there should be harsher penalties.

The privileged kids and their parents in your example should also face consequences.

Honestly you’re not the first person I’ve seen on here say this, what part of the country are you in? Honestly when I was 16 the centre had young mum groups and then groups for everyone but the groups for everyone were mainly attended by the same mums in the young mum group.
No one had a flash car most of us couldn’t even drive haha.

There was a separate group called hartbeeps that you had to pay to attend maybe the mums with money went to that? They certainly weren’t at the free groups at least not in large numbers at all

I always wish on threads like this, that you could come and live with me for a week.

I live across the road from one of the most notorious council estates in the West Midlands. It was where the Jeremy Kyle producers used to hunt for guests back in the day (I know a few people from my children’s school who have proudly shown me videos of when they were on it!)

They love it. They love the fighting, arguing, the hanging out of windows shouting at each other.

My children go to the primary school on the estate. They went back today, walking through the estate in a cloud of weed from the other parents and the houses around.

We regularly have parents beating the shit out of each other in the playground, it’s so normal, no one bats an eyelid, the school has awful issues with the children’s behaviour becuase the parents don’t care. They egg them on because they went to that school themselves and see it as the enemy still.

They don’t want to change. And to be honest, they all seem happier than me; so where did I go wrong.

Like I said though, no one wants to hear it, but it’s true. DM and come and visit me and see for yourself.

I completely agree, OP, but you’ll get people along in a minute to accuse you of benefit bashing and making excuses for these feral brats and their incompetent parents.

People who have antisocial children should pay fines. Regardless of their situation. It should be mandatory that if your child is caught doing something abusive/anti-social, you get fined. Regardless if you’re terrorising toddlers at the playpark or just yelling vile stuff. It should be an on the spot fine, to the abusive child’s parents.
If they don’t pay or whatever, it’s escalated to community service for the child and their parents. Makes sense to me, make them “pay” because ASBOS aren’t working!

Thing is, I can count on one hand the number of naughty children I've taught that have come from privileged homes.

It's such a shame but as a rule those who misbehave from poorer backgrounds have not been equipped with the tools to manage life and society.

It's not all kids from council houses, probably a small percentage but they do make up the majority within schools

I worked across 5 sites at a time. I can only say what I saw over a few years.

The middle class mums? Fine. But it was just grating when they would turn up in flash cars, or send the child with the nanny to a free class that they could more than afford to pay for elsewhere.

And when they looked down their noses at young mums from the estate (which they did), it hardly made for a nice atmosphere for the people who needed it to come to.

No from what I saw, no.

A lot of the things were so fucking pointless and lacklustre. We had someone in to run cookery classes for teen parents who was the most condescending cow I’d ever met. Completely turned off the few who came by being so judgmental and rude.

And no, the area where I was, it was all the older, better off mums who would lower themselves to drive in to the estate, and each week, at least one would make some hilarious remark about their car wheels not being there when they came out.

Some of the people who needed it were constantly spoken down to by my colleagues and health visitors. Treated like they were stupid and made to feel as if they were under scrutiny.

I’ll always remember one lovely young girl, who committed the terrible sin of opening a bottle of Fanta at a stay and play and was loudly lectured that soft drinks were not allowed as it wasn’t a good example for the children (fuck off, it’s fanta, not crack). I used to make complaints about the way my colleagues and volunteers spoke to parents.

Funnily enough, no one batted an eye lid if the wealthier mums drank a can of coke, it was only a problem when the mums from the estate did. Ditto toddlers throwing tantrums or mums having a chat instead of being glued to thier child’s side the whole time.

So you can why they didn’t bother.

I'm one of the "moved away" families

That pretty much sums it up

Yet when I say i now avoid living near social housing, I'm called a snob by people thst haven't lived it 😂

So how do you get parents to engage?

Genuine question, not trying to be goady.

What would get the high risk or vulnerable parents in? Something for free? Not cash I think but something.

Could this partly be that in at least some poorer neighbourhoods, the most antisocial people are the ones left? That in some cases, those who can have moved away and those who are left are the ones least concerned with other people's opinions?

So did it not actually really improve things?

This gets said all the time on here but I used to go to one back when my eldest was a baby. It was aimed at young parents (I was 16) and the other parents were all under 21. Went to a few clubs open for anyone and the same people were there with a few older parents (who didn’t seem like “middle class yummy mummies” but even if someone like that wants to go so what?)

Thank you, this is important info : 'Only know a couple of officers these days, both would have failed entry years ago. Literacy is not their strong point. Whilst we all agree doors shouldn't be closed for ND, there does need to be common sense too. Notes/ statements need to be accurate/ coherent and legible'

I had no idea about this. Wonder how widespread it is. If it's getting more common for officers to not be properly literate, no wonder there are paperwork issues...!

I don’t wan to derail, but I worked for sure start back in the dark ages.

One of the reasons it was scrapped was because the demographic it was aimed at weren’t using it.

In the centres I oversaw, it was all the middle class mummies wanting freebie classes.

The parents who needed it, on the whole, wouldn’t engage.

So low IQ people would be banned from patenting?

The problem isn't low IQ, though that can overlap. The problem is behaviour.

Only know a couple of officers these days, both would have failed entry years ago. Literacy is not their strong point. Whilst we all agree doors shouldn't be closed for ND, there does need to be common sense too. Notes/ statements need to be accurate/ coherent and legible. Someone who cant do that cant realistically be in position where its important, other roles yes.

Mental health provision needs to improve.
Social services need investment.
Social contract needs rebuilding. It's been eroded over the years. Education, policing, health, housing all are suffering and social cohesion the victim.

I remember the olden days when everyone was terrified of 'what would the neighbours say?' and your social appearance was everything. I mean, this is sixty years ago, but around where I lived, even the most feral families didn't want the police at their door because everyone would talk.

So maybe this is a 'society' problem too - familes are all so fractured, nobody knows who lives in their neighbourhood any more. The exclusion by friendship groups and the family groups that you relied on were more of a punishment than anything else - nobody wanted to be known as 'the problem family'.That has all gone, the whole 'it takes a village' has gone.

There were problem families in the past too, of course, It's not a solution, just an observation based on where I grew up (very working class neighbourhood).

Good post, made me think if ever such a policy as mentioned in the op was put in place it would probably raise allegations of racism towards black kids so would end up a lot harsher on the white kids.

This also needlessly punishes younger siblings (or siblings im general really) in more in favour of borstals for out of control teens, you know rather than punishing their entire family who can’t help being related to them

I thought the whole point of Scum was that it didn't work.

'I favour Borstals run along the lines of the one in Scum and I don't care if they go from there to prison without having learned a thing and spend their lives there.

The greater good is more important.'

• how is it the greater good to make prisons more full with no care for rehabilitation (which is more possible at younger ages)?

Do you realise that our prisons are full to bursting? And that building more, even if we start now, will take some time?

The more crowded prisons are at the moment, the more time prisoners spend in their cells getting worse rather than doing woodwork or similar, and the more chance of staff being injured or overwhelmed in a riot.

They do. My friend lost her council house due to her DS behaviour; noise, abuse, drugs etc. She ended up in a hostel with her DD, and her DS - who was 18 - was sent to a separate men’s hostel with restrictions/curfew etc.

After 8 months she got a council flat for her and her DD but her DS was not allowed to live with them.
They are all on benefits. I don’t think my friend could have done anything about his behaviour at that time. He was already wild and she had absolutely no influence on him.

The damage was done from a very early age and he was very spoilt by his Mum and other siblings, who continue to spoil and enable him.
It’s getting things right from a much earlier age that is crucial. Very sad and frustrating.

Yes, I don't think more children in an already overstretched care system would necessarily improve things.

But otoh, I do think, at least somewhat, that thresholds to remove kids are too low. It is very hard for social workers at the moment.