Where are all of the Labour voters in real life?!

Andy Burnham seems to understand that the British pubic want someone they kind of like as a person above all else. Your guy next door basically. He understands that there is massive overlap between centre Tory and Labour policy and usually there is pretty much one way to govern broadly which is in response to macroeconomic events, changing demographics etc etc power struggles by the superpowers and now increasingly too much individuals which huge amount of power (Money and data and energy) backed by foreign governments (and we can’t always tell if they wish us well or not). Ultimately Europe has opened itself up to other superpowers trying to exert some sort of malign influence over it and there is no way we cannot get back into a closer defence and security relationship with our closest neighbours. How that is navigated with the whole freedom of movement and the EU principles remains to be seen.
Keir Starmer thought the public wanted and needed solid policy etc and then kept flip flopping as no amount of good or bad policy making sways the majority of the British public. We are all so spoilt by peace time and assuming it is going to be fine one way or another, that we don’t really value subtle policy changes, Nor do we even believe that they are going to be implementing any of what they promise.
So it is back to Personality politics. It is all rather ironic that Burnham the backstabber of all backstabbers is Mr Nice supposedly, but we shall see. In the mean time, I doubt Keir Starmer has forgiven it as otherwise why would he be resigning on the eve of Andy Burnham’s debut at question time. So clearly the power struggles within the Labour fold continue, as they do in the Tory fold. Some Tories simply have far more in common with certain Labour MPs ideologically speaking than with other Tory MPs and vice versa.

Generally Starmer could not understand the issues on immigration, his rhetoric didn’t work at all, hence he was ousted.

Of course if we want to be literal, Labour have never had an open borders policy, but New Labour had a more open immigration system and numbers rose as a result.

We all remember Blair’s forecast that between 16,000 to 18,000 Eastern European migrants would arrive for work, the number was closer to 200,000, while other EU countries restricted access.

Therefore Blair’s forecasting failure opened the door to migration on a scale totally not anticipated.

Again, the conservatives changed policy just before 2024 which had a lagged impact on visa numbers.

Labour had an open door immigration policy immediately prior to the 2024 when they were not in power?

Can you provide a link to this open door policy they had? And explain why if it was Labour policy it was the tories that had peak net migration levels?

Later as in just before the 2024 GE. The big visa reductions kicked in after due to the lag in policies.

Obviously pro Labour promote it differently.

The left from Blair onwards has always sold migration as a good, whether it’s academia, the media ie the BBC, The Guardian, other institutions. It’s odd to see no memory re that but I guess not that surprising politically.

Although it doesn’t really match with the other claims from a pp that it’s not that important anyway.

Overall we’ll see if it works, Burnham seems to be liked more than Starmer (not hard) but seems a bit empty on his first attempt. But it’s up to voters, a GE is a long way off in political terms.

But people are more free online. A poster on another thread said (paraphrasing) that she doesn’t agree with any immigrants being here, from windrush onwards as it’s changed our country too much. Others agreed with her. Given the ethnic make up of the country, she may not have felt able to express that (?racist) view in real life.

100% this.

🙋🏻 hello, you’re describing me. I grew up in a single parent family household, struggling for money but very happy, this was in Manchester, I’ve lived in London, Glasgow and now leafy Cheshire. I have 2 degrees, am a professional, married with children own a nice house, a couple of holidays a year and although not flush, I recognise were comfortable. I would pay more tax, despite being higher rate tax payer, but for the right reasons. I recognise the aging population, and the problems this will bring. So we do need to encourage immigration. I also believe we should lift up those struggling, be it here, around the world or anywhere. I work hard but I also know I’m lucky. Lucky to have been born where the climate is ok, I’ve lived a life in peacetime and not worried about food on my table. There are millions who can’t say the same around the world so why shouldn’t we help others? I find the selfishness of society today just appalling.

It’s very common. In reality but especially online. There was a brief period when it was better but it is reversing again

I don't recall Cooper ever saying 'refugees welcome' either while Home Sec - happy to stand corrected if there's a link for that?

What do you mean conservatives changed policy later?

I am questioning your claim that Labour made open borders a policy. If that is so where is it stated and why levels highest under the Tories not Labour? If Labour had an open door policy why has no Labour government ever done away with border controls?

Racism to people of colour very much exists. Sometimes it’s direct and sometimes it’s covert. But it has not disappeared unfortunately.

I'm from an NHS family and it's about 50-50. The older ones are largely Tory and the younger ones Labour.

I think you can tell who is racist and who is not by the language they use, when discussing the same topic.

I find this odd. I have a very mixed circle of friends but broadly left-leaning. I grew up in the countryside - and all my friends from back then are left-wing, we were fairly alternative I suppose - and now live in the Home Counties.

I think the UK is a centrist country and most people don't want either hard right or hard left policy. They just want things to be the same but a bit better. The obsession with immigration is just the hard right (funded by its Russian overlords) stirring the pot for decades. Of course people who are struggling/working hard don't want to see people who don't even come from here seeming to do better than them, but that's not really what's happening.

Because the conservatives changed policy later, just before the GE. It was their visa changes though.

On Labour - Cooper emulated the mood with ‘refugees welcome’. Starmer realised he was in the shit electorally and changed to Mahmood. It didn’t stop him being ousted.

Blair, the 90s and free flowing labour has been pretty consistent. As said Labour want to survive so they’re moving to a place they wouldn’t have previously.

Whether it works for them we’ll see at the next GE.

I am a London hospital doctor. I voted Labour in the last election. My dr friends were a mix of Labour and Libdem. Nurse friends voted Labour. Husband votes Tory. One friend will vote Reform. I find the right wing homogeneity of your NHS group unusual.

Can you share a link to any Labour policy for open borders?

Why were the highest net migration levels not under Labour and why did border controls exist under Labour when the policy was open borders?

What total bollocks

They have yes. Enough to change from Cooper to Mahmood and see that Starmer was electorally disastrous on the issue.

Visa policy was prior to the GE.

Tax rates aren’t the sole reason banks are located where they are (I am in financial services too).

Have they switched? They have never had an open door immigration policy and peak net migration levels were reached under the Tories.

have been called a Nazi, Mao and a bigot

I thought Mao was considered a compliment by some of those on the left.

Yeah thats also how the lecturers and university status quo is dont challenge the narrative. Else you ll be ostracized and others may see you as selon moi
At least your not part of the norm. Well done !