Do you think your school (whether teacher or parent) genuinely has a zero tolerance approach to bullying?

I don't think things like detentions are useful for any issue, whether bullying or uniform. It is a silly method of discipline in my opinion.

I think the method of discipline that works the best is having a teacher who connects with the child (i mean, builds a rapport where the child seeks the teacher's good opinion). That teacher could be a PE teacher or a TA or anyone, but that will give the child a reason to want to behave.

The school i work at is secondary so it's a bit different but yes I think generally good; most of the pastoral leaders are good at listening with an open mind which is important. There are some colleagues of mine in particular who I think are really excellent at it.

At my dd's school, I felt they listened to my concerns but their initial priority was keeping my dd separate from Susie, instead of looking deeper into Susie's picture ie her well-being, her home life, etc, reasons why she might be behaving that way. They literally initially said to me "we don't think there's any need to talk to Susie's parents about this" and they assumed it was just a "clash of personalities". She is from a genteel affluent family and I think they couldn't believe she was really like that. When other parents started complaining, i think they looked into it a bit more. At least I know of one other parent who complained.

All you can do is go and look round a school and get a feel for it. Do the kids look happy? Are they engaged in lessons? Are they joining in with extra curricular activities? What is the staff turnover like?

If there is evidence, bullying is easy to deal with (CCTV, screenshots of messages etc...) so parents are called, pupils spoken to etc...

Online, you're always going to get parents who say don't send your child to a particular school bullying is rife, the SEN help is awful etc... but as a teacher when I read these messages, it is almost hard not to laugh when you know the other side of the story.

e.g. a dad was saying online that his son was excluded for a few days because he brought pork chops left over from the family BBQ to school and a refugee child got offended. What the dad failed to mention was that he waved the pork products in front of this child's face then threw the pork chop at him!

Another parent always slags off the SEN department at school. But in reality her son was really violent, and despite being offered huge amounts of support, he constantly told staff to f*ck off and would push tables over if he got angry. The school even paid for external provisions as he badly beat up another child. The boys own brother said it was because his brother got to do what he wanted at home so wasn't used to being told no.

So ultimately, go and look round the school, and get a good feel for it. That's much better than reading stuff online or even reading Ofsted reports.

It's not possible to have a zero policy because sometimes bullying is more nuanced than uniform infractions.

I mean say your dc is being bullied and if there's no witnesses then it's one person's word against another, and yes I have seen directly when a child will use "I am being bullied" really as a form of bullying in itself, so it shouldn't just be taken as read.

Bullying can never have the immediate reaction unless it has been witnessed - and even then other pupils or parents may have a bias that means it still isn't confirmed.

I’d hoped schools had changed a bit, but looks like they’ve got worse in that respect. It seems punishments for tiny things are handed out like sweets, yet the bigger issues have spiralled.

Well it does depend on the school as to what they hand out punishments for, but I don't think bigger issues have spiralled. When I was at school admitting you were feeling bullied would have been seen as admitting you were weak. A lot of bullying would have been brushed away as "toughening up". Now going in and saying you feel bullied will be taken seriously.

And when I was at school uniform infractions were taken seriously. We had to ask before taking our blazers off, and in all weathers we would have been expected to leave the grounds with tie done up and blazers on. It was accepted and so we just made sure that we were like that leaving the gates.
What has increased in the parents supporting their children in not wearing the uniform and then complaining about how unfair it is vocally.

My experience, the schools are so obsessed with attendance statistics and inflating their reputations and keeping their poxy Ofsted ratings, that they no longer suspend, or expel, or even acknowledge bullying and unacceptable behaviours. Word must not get out.

There are now "managed transfers" preferably for unspecified reasons.

So you won't know the real picture until you get there. Possibly worth briefly subscribing to schoolparrot or similar, because you do often get useful insight you won't find elsewhere.

My eldest son’s high school definitely takes a zero tolerance to bullying but my younger son’s primary is the total opposite, nothing ever happens and they don’t try and stop anything happening either!

Be thankful you are not in Scotland, here it's nearly 100% tolerance to bullying in our high schools, sadly

If you are referring to me who said that DS’s school is equally strict on bullying as minor things then the minor things really are quite petty.

Eg there are a uniform and equipment requirement list. The equipment list details things that should be in everyone’s pencil case such as red pen, blue pen, green pen, ruler, etc etc. They have spot checks, DS got a detention for not having a green pen in his pencil case!

It frustrates me beyond belief and I think it’s super counter-productive as detentions are not a deterrent any more. DS expects one most days and just sees it as a bonus if he’s allowed to leave school at 3:30.

I think it's also that teachers (i am one), like all humans, are subconsciously biased towards the sunny, friendly type children who volunteer to help and answer question etc, rather than the shy, sulky children who don't want to join in.

Yet the bullies are often of the first personality type and the bullied are often of the second.

Edit to add - so when my dd (shy type) complained to me that Susie (sweet and "friendly" type) was bossing her to do bad things, insulting her and pushing her, even i didn't quite believe it until I saw Susie relentlessly doing it on a playdate. Ugh.

It's ok. I took time off work and we had a nice day out. DS didn't hear a peep out of the other boy again.

I'm so with you OP!

And sadly, no. Bullying is not taken as seriously as stupid uniform rules in my experience of 3 schools.

Unfortunately, there's sometimes a bit of subjectivity in identifying bullying, whereas a uniform misdemeanor is obvious to everyone.

I sympathise though as, for a while, my dd was being bullied by another girl who was all sugar and sweetness in front of the teachers "oh Susie, such a lovely girl". Her behaviour is categorically not lovely, she pushed kids over, made threats and goaded them with insults everyday, and it took several different parents complaining about her bullying until the teachers finally noticed.

But from the teachers' pov, it's all "(s)he says, (s)he says" until they actually witness it for themselves. Unlike a missing tie which you can spot instantly

I wish we had had that st primary! Our school.was particularly bad and I know so many parents who gather to talk about 2-3 children in each year group who cause the problems, but it seem to be endemic around here at all the primaries.

Something to do with how the LA manage things perhaps? Or the sort of culture that builds up? I do know that many of the teachers and head teachers across the schools know each other.

Im sorry thats your experience. Its certainly not mine. Ds' school interviews all involved and often can also acces cctv.

There is a woman i know who thinks her children are being targeted. She thinks ds and others are lying about them. I have no idea what she thinks when the school tells her they have cctv but I can only assume she believes that whatever they do that is captured on cctv is justified because of what her children tell her is happening the resr of the time.

On one occasion, yes, ds lashed out as a result of bullying. And yes, he did get detention - the school has a zero tolerance policy to any violence - but the children who had taunted him and caused the problem originally were punished, severely.

They talk a good game but when push comes to shove, it's only the decent kids who get punished. My ds got suspended for fighting back. Only a detention for the aggressor. The arseholes are pretty much free to do whatever they want time and again knowing that for whatever secret reason, they are allowed to.

DS’s school 💯 has a zero tolerance policy to bullying. DS and his best mate were calling each other names just messing around and I received a call home and DS received a detention.

They also are very strict on minor things as well. He’s a good kid, in top set for everything, polite to teachers who all sing his praises. But not a week goes by where he doesn’t have a detention for some minor infringement or another. He just sees school finish time as 4:30 not 3:30 now.

no. not even close.

Ds school is very big on dealing with bullying and I have seen the effort they put in. Unfortunately, it also requires them being able to SEE it, and its often hidden.

Overall, my experience suggests that (certainly around here) most secondary schools are doing their best, with effectiveness varying based on a LOT of variables. but the primaries are terrible. Bullying is generally treated as, at best, children who just dont get on. At worst, seen as a bit of rough housing or similar.