AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?

Protecting their own high street, well done France, we need to do the same.

France targets Shein and Temu with fast fashion fees https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2792pendro

Apologies - I replied when distracted. I meant to say employer and employee NI. You are right in that regard, though you might start with just yourself and it’s still lower risk than business rates, which you often have to take in for a long tenancy if 6 months or more, not knowing if you will sell anything.

It’s not everywhere in France. Many shops have closed, including independent boulangeries. This is often where big supermarkets have opened.

I think its excellent shops shut on Sundays (even though you can still go the supermarket, Baker,Butcher,DIY & Garden Centers on Sunday mornings !!!) Does everyone really need to shop 7 days a week.
ps. I used to have a shop in France

Same applies in Sweden 31.5 % social tax and paid by the employer- which is why many places seem very understaffed - people often comment about many places without understanding the underlying reasons-same goes for deductions from pay- you get8% holiday pay deducted and in may get thousands of Euros ( equivalent as it’s krona) bonus - which is holiday pay! It’s like a compulsory savings account- it’s why I shrug too at people going on about employers NI and being the most taxed in Europe etc - er no, nowhere near!!

Your response to the poster who mentioned social contributions was that employees pay them. Which they do but employers also pay a share and social contributions are higher than UK NICs. If you're going to open a high street shop in France you're going to need staff and they're going to cost more than in the UK.

Yes, mostly pension schemes who invested heavily in commercial property a couple of decades ago and are now stuck with it as it messes up their financial ratios etc if they sell at the inevitable loss. So they tend to "bank" the empty property in the hope that a big developer will eventually come along to either demolish or convert the premises into something else.

I think I remember reading that ownership of commercial property is different in France. So whereas a lot of UK shops and hospitality businesses rent from a larger landmord, a good number of French small businesses will own their premises and it will be passed down tbe family.

Not having to find thousands in rent every month can make a big difference to the survival of an independent shop or venue.

Parking is a much bigger issue that people think. I’m equal distance between a town and a village. If I want the post office I pick village with free on street parking outside v town where they have got rid of on the street parking (and put in wider pavements with stone balls on that seem to be a hazard to pedestrians) If I’m popping out at lunch I don’t have time to faff around looking for parking.
It only takes one ticket and you’ll never go there again. I used to go to a supermarket in a small deprived town centre. It was free to park but as it was a council car park you had to put a disc in window. I forgot one evening and got a ticket, think there were 3 cars in the car park. I paid but never went again. It soon shut down. I’d rather drive to out of town with free car park than risk a ticket.

High streets aren't thriving everywhere in France. Like the UK many of them have suffered due to first the arrival of suburban shopping centres, and now due to online shopping.

Similarly in the UK there are some upmarket places with thriving high streets and independent shops and cafes, and others that are dead.

One thing France does well is independent shops/cafes/restaurants, rather than chains, I agree with that. Culturally, there is still much more demand for these, and shopping in markets/butchers/bakers etc. There is a certain amount of regulation that helps independent shops, but still many of the same problems as the UK in terms of threat from online and the cheaper prices/convenience of supermarkets and fast food.

I know - brilliant isn't it!

They close because not enough customers use them. It's like pubs - everyone bemoans that so many have closed, yet didn't actually use them enough when they were open. Shops and pubs need a lot of footfall to cover the enormous overheads.

Nonsense? Try living here especially in rural areas and where large markets are. I on the other hand shop at Aldi in France like a lot of others.

In my small city, we are all in walking distance of the centre. It is not thriving.

The usual, empty shops, nail bars, barbers, charity shops, a nicer chain clothes store has just closed. Some more upmarket independent clothing shops are still open, mainly for an older market.

When a new business is in the planning stages, they often ask, via social media, ‘what do you want?’. Loads of good ideas, sports shop, men & women’s clothing, children’s clothing, homewards. People open their business, six months later, they close, despite providing to the wants of the community.

The local Chamber of Commerce is much stronger in France and has been for many years. It might be compulsory to join, it is certainly expected.
They have rules about pharmacies not being in multi ownership. No Boots Pharma. All independent.
The comment up thread about the amount of tax that is spent locally is valid.

I don't live in France, but in a country in Asia, with great shopping streets..

Here, the difference is a mix of the concentration of people being higher (Smaller homes, more flats) which means more customers surrounding the shops - and hugely cheaper operating costs that don't put a noose around the neck of new independent shops.

The other thing I've noticed here is there is more logical positioning of shops, than in the UK - where everything ends up on one highstreet. That is nice for the old-fashioned "walk along the Highstreet" but for daily life it isn't that practical. Here you tend to get shops positioned by where they are needed. E.g. stationary shops are next to schools, hairdressers are in residential areas, food type shops will group together, and home shops will group together, so if you need that type of thing, you know the road to go to. etc.

I genuinely do think it will improve in the U.K. once a tipping point is reached, and a significant proportion of shops are empty. Once it is hurting the income of those in power, they will act, and running a local business will become more affordable. At the moment, it just isn't hurting the right people. The richer side still live in lovely places with thriving high streets, and enough of the poorer area's shops are kept open by the betting shops, vape shops, barbers, etc. to keep the rental portfolios from fully collapsing.

Yup. Councils have killed their own High Streets by their war on motorists with high car park charges, pedestrianisations, traffic calming, one way systems, access only roads, etc. Drivers just go to retail parks and supermarkets instead.

We used to have a very busy and popular shopping street at one end of town where people drove to from all over the area for the small shops I,e, one was award wing home made pies! Council spent six months and tens of millions “improving” it for pedestrians, with planting trees, widening the pavements, etc which took away most of the on street parking. Now it’s pretty much derelict, the shops are gone, I.e. butcher, fish shop, bakery, pharmacy, post office, etc leaving just a hairdresser, a couple of charity shops, money laundering Turkish barbers and vape shops, etc. But it’s nice that pedestrians have a lovely wide pavement to walk past the empty derelict shops!

We’ve still got a similar shopping street at the next small town which people drive to for the small independents that has free on street parking and is still vibrant but council have announced plans to “improve” it! Thankfully there’s a lot of opposition by shop owners and locals so people are hopeful they can get the council to leave it alone!

Everything is also a lot cheaper in France than in England.

I am here right now, and not in a cheap area! Yesterday I got breakfast (€5.50), did a food shop (just some basics, €18.70) and got a pizza for dinner (€8.90).

An equivalent breakfast would have probably been £7-8 at home, the food shopping at least £25, and the equivalent pizza from my local takeaway would be £14 minimum.

Employers in the UK also pay employer NI. The question was about high street shops.

Very interesting you mention this - we are going to the EU for business reasons ( multiple hoop jumping in itself post Brexit) Netherlands really fitted for all sorts of business reasons ( we lived in Copenhagen for 2 years and sadly came back for family issues) we have dismissed Netherlands this time - partly because we like a decent car and partly because we also like a really nice rental house - and having been several times in last year, it’s clearly not very pro car and the rental houses were pretty poor for an awful lot of money having spoke to the relocation lady and people have ended up in Airbnbs for months - apart from that it’s great!!! - and my husband won’t compromise in our early 60s on these basics. So it’s going to be Sweden or Germany, like their cars, better value housing

I think that’s the reality rather than what many romanticists want to think France is but isn’t - in all but the loveliest places with a strong tourist vibe

It was like this when we lived in Copenhagen - big difference was a lot of people lived within Copenhagen and finished work at 4.15pm and started early and school pre care started early

I’m afraid that’s a bit stereotyped . Plenty are perfectly happy to buy cheap stuff - A lot of expats however are the type and with time to go around multi shop shopping - as are better off French

@WasShocked it’s a factor though and I do see it - when we lived in Copenhagen they don’t allow Amazon.dk - you have to get from Amazon Germany or Sweden and so consequently Amanzon then charge shipping and are not cheaper than getting from a shop -hence Copenhagen had all sorts of weird and wonderful niche shops that can’t make it pay in the UK - plus they don’t have the kind of business rates system we have in the UK - the UK has the worst of all worlds if it comes to physical retail and making it pay - a consumer who usually can go online and get cheaper, plus big rents and big business rates

Employers pay a share of social contributions to the URSSAF or MSA.