To think friendship is hard for childless/childfree women

I know you meant no disrespect but some people are incapable of having it together even those without stressful jobs and even children.

For example , my little brother cannot understand why I become so overwhelmed despite having no kids and I try to explain that, that's one of the reasons I didn't want kids because I am aware enough to know I wouldn't cope.

@User3353821614 - it really wasn't meant to be a boast of any sort so I don't understand your response. I do live an incredibly busy life and I very much don't live by my phone. As above, I've got a really busy job and two kids. But when I do pick up my phone, I go through my messages and respond to those from people I care about. I think that not doing this is rude? And if a friend of mine didn't respond to my messages, I'd assume she wasn't that interested in my friendship.

I'm obviously not talking about in acute times of crisis, if you've had a death in the family or some terrible news or similar. But having a job and children isn't an excuse for ignoring friends, and a quick WhatsApp message doesn't take long.

Well, congratulations 🥳 what an outstanding human you must be.

Some of us lead very busy lives and don’t live by our mobile phones.

The best and easiest times for friendship in my experience are before and after having children as children are a huge consumer of resources - time and energy. I’d suggest investing in friendships with people who don’t have kids or whose kids are grown up. Be open to age gap friendships which can be really wonderful.

I completely empathise with OP and a few others on here. I’m childfree and the last one of my friends had a baby last year, it is a very lonely place to be in for people like us. A former friend was resentful of my childfree by choice status and after failing to plant the seeds of doubt in my mind over my decision, resorted to sly immature digs about it. As a woman we are othered for not having children whether it is by choice or circumstance.

They probably feel the same about you! Before they are able to even leave the house they have already juggled a lot of logistics for what is often a small window of freedom followed by being back ‘on’ the second they return.

It does get easier! I'm in my early 40s and over the last few years, my friends with children have begun to have much more bandwidth now that their children are in school. It's much easier to spend time together and while of course their children are still a huge focus (as they should be!), we're able to make space for other topics and relationships as well. I remember being really down about this in my late twenties and through my thirties, but it was worth understanding that their lives had changed and trusting them that it wouldn't be like this forever. And it's not. There are so many seasons of life. It does get so much easier.

I'm sure that's true, but I'm also sure that men aren't inherently more sociable.

exactly. it's always "how can I possibly leave the children when I have to do EVERYTHING and can't possibly be away from them because they need ME.

Well if you're breastfeeding, yes. fair enough. but even when DS was small, and medically complex, even when we had him and twins, they didn't always need ME, because I had a partner who worked full time but was also a parent. he could do bed time once in a while, or look after the kids for a few hours.
the number of posts on this forum where it's " well he can manage one but I couldn't leave him with two, he'd never cope!".
that is the problem, your lazy ass partner or your refusal to let them do their jobs.

parenting can be all consuming. I remember crying into the dark that the babies cried to spite me. i have periods where I wouldn't even contemplate leaving my house to do anything else than parent. but if you have a partner and you don't have time to do anything except parent hom and your kids, then that isn't healthy and it is something you can choose to rebalance.

The not blaming your friend bit is important here.

I’m sure some of my friends with kids will say I dumped them when they had kids. I didn’t. I wanted to keep up communication with them, I wanted to still go to dinner with them, I accepted that some times we would have to do things with their kids. But if our relationship requires me meeting you at soft play and having our interactions interrupted every 3 minutes by toddlers, then that’s not a relationship that’s fair to me.

I had a miscarriage and couldn’t tell my friend or lean on her for support because I couldn’t speak to her without her 5 year old present. She was there for every phone call and every in person catch up, and so I felt like I couldn’t mention it as I didn’t want to explain what was happening to a child, so even though I was physically miscarrying while we were getting coffee I couldn’t share how I was feeling.

I did back off from the relationship after that, as I actually needed to invest time in building other relationships and a mutual support network that she wasn’t willing to part of (because she couldn’t ever meet up without her child).

I do always wonder what the other side of the story is to people who get “dumped” by their friends after they have kids, and wonder how much they have in fact dumped their childless friends because their priorities have changed and they are no longer willing to make time for child free interactions.

I do have other friends with kids where we do a combination of kid free and kid friendly meet ups, including going to their house for a take away when the kids are in bed - so it’s doable if the parents are willing to make it happen!

I daresay there's quite a few mums who CHOOSE not to socialize

Your observation about dads' social lives suggests that mum's aren't socialising not because children are quite as all encompassing as people here are saying, but because they're partnered to shitheads.

I don't think it is any different for those that have children. Many women are lonely and would love to spend more time with friends. Unfortunately they're often just too exhausted to notice that they've not caught up with friends. It doesn't mean they don't want to, many just struggle to find the time or energy that they need to do it justice. They probably have the perception that those that are child free are out enjoying themselves the same way you all did in the past.

I just wanted to say that I am in the exact same situation as you. All my friends have young kids under 3 and it’s so difficult trying to organise meeting up, and then it generally tends to be a park or soft play. It’s impossible to catch up properly as the conversation is totally interrupted. I am hoping if I hang in there then it’ll start to get a bit easier.

Interesting I have observed that my husbands social life has hardly changed despite his friends becoming Dad’s - they still go out for drinks and weekends away etc.

I have found it nearly impossible to meet other childfree women - even joining clubs and activities I just can’t seem to meet them.

It honestly has been really tough so I completely sympathise with you. Feel free to DM if you want to chat.

I feel for you but honestly friends in 30s/40s is hard regardless of whether you have kids. Whilst those with kids it appears we have a social life, it is actually just weekends of play dates or birthday parties with our kids friends parents. I also don’t think you realise how hard it is to travel to see someone and all the organisation (childcare, other parent or travel with kids). It’s exhausting. Personally I would embrace the time you have and do things you find fun (activities or clubs) and make friends there.

One of the problems is that you need repeated contact to make a friend. I read somewhere it was like 100 hours or something to become a good friend.

It's why its easy to make friends at school and college because you are in contact with other people and the same people all the time.

when you are older it is really only work where you get that or through anything you attend regularly like a choir or a class or a church or volunteering in the same place with others. Unless you have kids where you get it at NCT, the school gates every day if you are picking up kids yourself and want to chat and when your kids meet their friends.

I am surprised you are going to soft play - really? is that how you actually want to spend your free time? If someone isn't going to make any effort for you, maybe you should look elsewhere. From the outside it looks like you are desperate to cling onto a friendship that you have outgrown, otherwise why are you not saying no thanks to places that are deadly dull even if you are with your own children.

You can find friends and you would be better off with friends in a similar life position to you. Find something you like that you can do regularly and do a couple of things

Eventually the ones with young children will be empty nesters or divorced and hunting around for you again. It comes back around.

I have a friend of 20+ years and I can honestly only remember her coming to one of my houses once. I have lived in my current house 6
years and she has NEVER been here despite multiple invites. I am
always expected to go and meet her in the city. I hate the city. It becomes tiresome and I am a bit done with it to be honest

Not childfree here, but I think it could be hard in general. When I had mine (at 20) I was quickly dropped by my ‘friends’ and never made new ones (except one who was not even close to local so I can’t spend much time with)

I wouldn’t specifically look for childfree people, maybe just people like me who are in their 30s (or early 40s) but have kids who are almost grown. Otherwise there is a risk you find some childfree people who end up having kids pretty quickly afterwards.

Though as to the how…honestly it’s lost on me too, I’m a person with just one solitary friend, and my husband only has 2 too so yeah, not easy.

So true. I had 3 kids. Most of my friends were and still are child free. And will stay child free

I met up with friends at lunchtimes from work, often had them over to my house once the kids were in bed or got a babysitter to go out. Very rare I met up with friends with kids in tow once they were past small babyhood. I never really did " mummy friends" as wanted adult conversation not hearing about other people's kids

I empathise with OP. I was one of the last of my group of friends to have kids, and I remember joining them at parks, soft plays, etc and while I did see them outside of that, it wasn't the same as before- more occasional meet-ups, etc and I remember feeling fed up about it and quite lonely, especially because they made new mum friends, who they did seem to have time for.

However, having had kids, who are now becoming teenagers. I now appreciate -

1. It can be really hard to maintain friendships in the same way during those early years, so I'd expect some adjustment of expectations on both sides. My husband was happy to have the kids, and I did see single/childfree friends alone, but not as frequently as before and yes, I did also ask if they could join me at parks etc and they did, but it wasn't the same as pre-kids.

2. It can also be hard being the 'mum of young kids' amongst single/childfree friends, I couldn't always make meet ups (as above), but still felt sad about not joining or not being available for impromput get togethers. Or when I did go, I felt like such a frump and out of touch with all the places to go and how to dress and my chat felt so domestic and mundane and not really part of it, so I'd think about that perspective too.

3. There is another side to those early years and some (not all) of those friendships that were a bit more on hold have come back, now that our kids are getting older. I noticed some of those that had kids earlier started getting in touch more, and as my kids have got older, I've more time to reconnect with people. That's been lovely - keeping some connection to some degree definitely helped, even if it wasn't quite the same. Additionally, some of those childfree friends now have young kids and don't quite have time in the same way for me anymore (it all goes around!), but I know we'll be in touch more down the line.

4. Wherever you're at, you need friends who are in the same situation as well. I treasured some of the mum friends I made, it was great to have social connection when looking after the kids. Some have gone on to become close friends, some have faded, as maybe the relationship was centred more around us doing stuff with the kids, and working hours have picked up, so there's less time during the week,

Equally, if you don't have kids, you need friends who are in the same situation, and if most of your old friends are off having children, it means working to find new ones who are also childfree (or have older children!). It sounds like you're doing all the right things and I'd keep persisting. Most of the time with clubs and groups etc (and I'd include baby/toddler groups and classes in this) is that mostly they are just fine and you meet one or two people you get on with, in which case just steadily build up contact outside of the group and see how you get on. It takes time to make an old friend. Occasionally you hit the jackpot though and find a group that just gels, so keep exploring. Good luck.

I’m 47 and childfree. All but one of my friendships have survived those friends becoming parents and raising children, and have endured through the death of a child, severe SEN, serious illness in children, infidelity, divorce etc. Those friends have rallied round and supported me at times of need in my life. And we’ve all been there for good times too, not just the bad.

The friendship that didn’t last is the one who went into full mummy martyr mode from before she even gave birth. The ‘first woman to ever have a child’ syndrome. The ‘you can’t possibly understand how tired I am’ trope. She sacrificed her identity, friends, career and marriage at the altar of martyred mummy and now 20 years later she’s wondering how it all went wrong.

If people want to maintain friendships, they will. There will be changes, obviously, and these will be necessary on both sides, but it is absolutely possible to be a parent and a decent friend.

I think you did hit a nerve, but ignore it. Maybe they feel guilty about the loss of their own friendships

I had my son in my late teens, no car and friends all studying or travelling to various faraway places. It was incredibly easy to bundle him in a push chair and take him on whatever adventures I wanted. I worked hard to keep my friendships alive.

Now the tables have turned and I have an older teenager whilst my friends have young children, I dont see them for dust.

If people want to make the time, they will regardless of time, distance or any other excuse.

It's been hard trying to form new friendships, but it does happen. Don't give up!

Completely understand. I'm 37 and childfree by choice. I'm lucky that one of my closest long term friends is also in the same boat, so we do a lot together. But it is hard maintaining friendships with people with kids.

Friendship should never be 100% one sided, no matter what the circumstances. If you're constantly the one putting in effort and consistently getting nothing back, they've only got themselves to blame when you ghost them.

I've learned to enjoy my own company over the years. I go to the cinema, walks, cafes, shopping, solo. I once done a 3 day trip to Lisbon and a day trip to Edinburgh solo, and although extremely nervous, found I enjoyed both. I've wanted to do another solo trip but funds have stopped me rather than anything else - single supplements suck!

Maybe online groups relating to your hobbies? There's groups on reddit for everything. Even if it's not real life interactions, it still can help not to feel alone.

@Tokek I don’t disagree to be fair.

I was 40 when I had my first child so thought the ship had sailed if you like. I didn’t realise how much work little children were. It was easy, surely, let them run round a park for a bit, they go to bed early, what is there to worry about? Ha.

It’s nice to have friends of all ages. My youngest close friend is about 20 years younger than me (she is child free) and my oldest close friend is over 20 years older than me (she has great grandchildren!). Both have lots of time for friendship.
When kids leave home their parents often invest more time in friendships again so it’s possible that old friendships will wax and wane over time.
I think hanging out with a friend who has young kids can be frustrating if you are looking for the level of interest, mutual support and connection you had previously.