AIBU to ask what is happening in Middlesbrough at the moment?

I think the families' point is that the "boys" were chased onto the A66. If there hadn't been a chase, they wouldn't have been going the wrong way on that road. Not that any of that changes the fact that responsibility lies with them.

Middlesbrough is a town of 2 halves, one half is high end, wealthy, beautiful houses, the other half is feral and almost lawless with a massive drig problem. The current problems involve organised crime groups, the police haven't ruled out a connection between the house fire and the crash, possibly rival gangs, maybe not, but they are keeping an open mind

The NE has been neglected for many years, they regularly obtain the lowest qualifications of any region. Yes Middlesbrough is “technically” North Yorkshire but it’s the north east really. In some areas of Middlesbrough 35% of residents have no qualifications at all. Wherever poverty, low education and government neglect are, crime will follow.

Your last sentence nails it.

Where are the beautiful houses and wealth?

Oh come on.

I don't know the area at all, so I just looked on Rightmove to get an idea of housing.

You've got 3 bed semis in Ormesby selling for £80,000:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/169806932?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Or you've got detached houses literally no more than a five minute drive up the road in Nunthorpe selling for a million:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/88038354?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Don't say "Where are the beautiful houses and wealth".

Someone upthread said it's a town of two halves, and indeed it is.

If you were a young man, brought up in extreme poverty, with poverty and bleakness all around you, and parents or a single parent using drugs and alcohol around you, a school system that likely failed you, and you left school with no qualifications, had no college or trainjng course to go on to, no adults invested in trying to help or support you in finding the right path in life, couldn't get anyone to employ you for a job so earnt no money and found yourself trapped in the cycle of poverty, and on a 5 minute drive round your town you saw houses like the 2nd link I posted, saw their cars on the drive, knew how well they lived whilst you faced zero prospects....I think eventually you'd start feeling angry.
And anger combined with the feeling of an unfair life (these young men didn't ask to be born into poverty) and absolutely no hope for their futures whilst surrounded by organised criminals preying on them and dangling promises in front of them saying "Do this job for me and I'll pay you money for it" in order to lure them in......sorry, but you're going to take it. And once you do, you're trapped. Trapped by crime. Trapped by violence. Trapped by threats to your life, to your families' lives. Real threats that you know will be carried out if you don't do what they tell you.

A lot of people are looking at this from the comfort of their middle class lives, which is why they can't understand. I'm not for a second excusing what these 5 males in the car did. But they weren't born bad. Their lives and experiences and what they've been exposed to since birth made them the people they turned in to.
And in my opinion, that's the fault of our society and of our successive local and national governments.

Oh come on.

I don't know the area at all, so I just looked on Rightmove to get an idea of housing.

You've got 3 bed semis in Ormesby selling for £80,000:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/169806932?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Or you've got detached houses literally no more than a five minute drive up the road in Nunthorpe selling for a million:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/88038354?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Don't say "Where are the beautiful houses and wealth".

Someone upthread said it's a town of two halves, and indeed it is.

If you were a young man, brought up in extreme poverty, with poverty and bleakness all around you, and parents or a single parent using drugs and alcohol around you, a school system that likely failed you, and you left school with no qualifications, had no college or trainjng course to go on to, no adults invested in trying to help or support you in finding the right path in life, couldn't get anyone to employ you for a job so earnt no money and found yourself trapped in the cycle of poverty, and on a 5 minute drive round your town you saw houses like the 2nd link I posted, saw their cars on the drive, knew how well they lived whilst you faced zero prospects....I think eventually you'd start feeling angry.
And anger combined with the feeling of an unfair life (these young men didn't ask to be born into poverty) and absolutely no hope for their futures whilst surrounded by organised criminals preying on them and dangling promises in front of them saying "Do this job for me and I'll pay you money for it" in order to lure them in......sorry, but you're going to take it. And once you do, you're trapped. Trapped by crime. Trapped by violence. Trapped by threats to your life, to your families' lives. Real threats that you know will be carried out if you don't do what they tell you.

A lot of people are looking at this from the comfort of their middle class lives, which is why they can't understand. I'm not for a second excusing what these 5 males in the car did. But they weren't born bad. Their lives and experiences and what they've been exposed to since birth made them the people they turned in to.
And in my opinion, that's the fault of our society and of our successive local and national governments.

What should society have done differently? Genuine question?

Do you not think the poster has already answered that? They’ve pulled out education, community, opportunity, poverty, crime prevention

Unfortunately some sections of society couldn't care less. In fact community in this case is part of the problem - young boys being part of the criminal going ons, they start them early as we have seen, it's there cultural capital. How does crime prevention work? There is no respect for Police.

I do think bringing back Sure Start Centres and opportunities for disadvantaged mums and kids would be a good step. However some communities don't want to know and abide by their own culture and rules. They need healthy good role models, that's the problem. But the role models won't be (and shouldn't be for obvious reasons) middle class, I suppose the working classes have been displaced in society.

Edited to add

That’s quite different to your question, in fact you seem quite aligned with what the poster said.

when you have a community problem you need a community solution. There is NO DOUBT that some people in society are untouchable and unsupportable. They have always been there and always will be. But that shouldn’t be mixed go with a community problem

I wasn't in opposition to their view. What's going on is heartbreaking.

The school system serves those from middle class homes who value education and are generally already doing well in life. There needs to be MUCH more opportunity post 16 (even post 15 perhaps) and no, not just college, some 16 year olds don't want to sit in class and learn. Let them work.

Its always been the case that killing or injuring a police officer is treated as incredibly significant because they are keeping law and order, if society goes after the people charged with keeping us safe, its completely lawless.

Absolutely agree it’s starts due to disenfranchisement. And when you have parents and grandparents who are already there they raise kids who feel that way from a young age.

Agree about surestart. No - you won’t touch everyone in society. But take an area with a population say of 1000 and 600 of those are disenfranchised. 200 value education and 200 live in poverty but not crime.

Over 50% of a community have influence over the other 40%.

Of we can reach 200/3/400 of those 600 we tip the scales.

The reason crime spread through communities is community cohesion. Easier to join them than beat them.

If you become a much smaller piece of the pie as a criminal and cannot groom
the generation to join in it becomes harder for you to increase your “gang” and to continue.

Raising hope makes people feel listened to and valued. Feeling valued stops them fighting against authority. It’s that fight that makes them blame authority - eg the police - when it goes wrong.

They been conditioned to blame everyone else for their problems. This is why reform and restore do so well in these types of areas.

The responsibility for all this crime and the murders lies firmly at the feet of those responsible.

However if anyone thinks it’ll just go away without some serious investment into the area and making them
feel as a community there’s a different and better way - they are deluded.

Imprisoning those responsible just leaves a gap in the market without real change alongside.

Set up a business. Do good for your community.

💯 this! People are so focused on throwing young groomed gang members into prison, not realising that all that does is create a job vacancy on the street. Impriosned, killed whatever- they’re replaced in hours

that's exactly the reason the police aim to smash the gangs, and target minor street gang members less. It’s a hiding to nothing as they’re completely disposable. Disrupt the supply and you get somewhere

Set up a business. Do good for your community.

that's exactly the reason the police aim to smash the gangs, and target minor street gang members less. It’s a hiding to nothing as they’re completely disposable. Disrupt the supply and you get somewhere

Is it working though?