AIBU to ask what is happening in Middlesbrough at the moment?

The degradation of culture that has led to these people existing and whole areas of Britain being effectively lawless has many causes. The destruction of the working classes. The destruction of work. The destruction of the economy. The destruction of the values of work, and, yes, its replacement by easy policies on giving handouts. The desperation that drives ever more violent films and media to be sold, holding up the values of lawlessness as something to aspire to. The growth of the internet and the lowest common denominator of selling techniques.

People in power were warned about the growth of violence, the lack of support for working values. They were warned. They didn’t listen. They didn’t care. And now all we will hear is how the locals are entirely to blame.

Culture is a complex and delicate thing, but it is driven from the top. I no longer recognise this country. I wish I could leave and I will be encouraging my youngsters to do so.

It may be worth, if you still believe in British democracy and other myths, looking up the Jarrow March. This year is also the anniversary of the 1926 General Strike. Imperialism never lasts but it does keep coming round and it always causes the same problems.

In usual circumstances, that is not how intelligence gathering works. Usually overtime, undercover, planned Ops.

This is different as it is reactive to daily, emerging situations, in response.

Think about it.

Where are these “extra” officers coming from?

other forces. They haven’t magicked up more police, they’re redistributing resources.

the police have been saying for years they need more officers and staff. But they get what they get.

the 20000 officers Boris promised? Yeah well that came with no funding so forces had to cut other resources to pay for them. So fewer support staff, forensics services, intel officers who all tend to be staff. A lot of the drugs intel is developed by staff before an action programme is drawn up by officers.

Cleveland police no doubt would have loved extra staff to deal with this before is happened. But it has, and other forces are now going short staffed creating problems there, and officers are will be getting their leave cancelled. So many will have school holiday leave booked they now have cancelled to send them to Cleveland.

it isn’t as simple as “drafting in” officers. Most forces are running on the minimum and don’t have staff to spare.

And who wants to join the police force now knowing that those things are likely to happen, to police a country where these behaviours are more valued than law and order, as clearly evidenced by wages and conditions.

Where are these “extra” officers coming from?
other forces. They haven’t magicked up more police, they’re redistributing resources.
the police have been saying for years they need more officers and staff. But they get what they get.

Agree - Having observed the chaos that has broken out, these events could have been just as easily triggered by police action that was under resourced. Then the public may not even have been as supportive.

They've somehow managed to maintain a balance on the surface, while things have slowly degraded. Now they're having to throw as much manpower at it as possible and something is having to be done.

Funnily enough I had literally this conversation on another thread with oblivious people who lived in six bedroom country piles, which led to my new username. I used the word dystopian, they used the word shithole, and back they went to their lovely lives. Unless you live in or near these places you have no idea what’s going on.

It has most certainly escalated since then and they are trying to quell it. It will be costing an absolute fortune to do this although I suspect central government will be contributing.

Yes, recruitment is falling.

the pension is not so great now. The days of final salary on 30 years service have long gone and it’s now career average aligned with state pension age. Better than some, but not exceptional. Not good enough to keep people in the service, and no one wants to be working response in their 60’s.

officers are also leaving. Huge workloads, not enough resources. Pay’s not great unless you do loads of overtime. Then you get events like this when your leave gets cancelled and your wife has to take the kids on holiday without you.

You can’t lock people up for crimes they might commit ffs.

And officers pay in approx 13% of their salary to their pension-it’s not free

No, but we can lock them up for a proper amount of time for crimes they have already committed to keep the community safer, and not allow early release when there is a high likelihood of re-offending.

Ah good to see the gangsta f-wit community releasing their balloons, burning cars and driving around at speed. Somehow we are paying for all this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdj43zkjweyo

Out of interest:

how do you “know” they have a very good pension?

do you know the actual pension provision, the contributions they make, and how it compares to other sectors?

are you a member of the police pension?

if not, do you know this as fact or are you just repeating something you once heard somewhere?

There is always someone ready to have a dig at public sector workers, isn’t there.

Shame, on a thread where holding criminals to account, saving lives, supporting those in crisis including death and trying to support families in a positive way in the future, all relies mostly (if not wholly) on public sector and charity sector workers.

Well I believe normal pension age is 60 for police which is better than nhs and teachers which is now 68.

I do appreciate they pay a lot in. 13%?

though not as good as the old scheme where you could retire whatever age after 30 years. My sister retired at 48 on a full pension. Shes having a great life since retirement 😁

It's the same in my home tiwn, a northern former fishing port. Industries gone, civil service/local gov/NHS offices relocated ending entry level opportunities for local kids and all the wider local jobs and businesses indirectly supported.

There really is nothing and similar to you, the towns former grand victorian guesthouses are now mainly HMOs housing asylum seekers or sex offenders brought in by charities. You can see gang and drug culture slowly gaining a foothold and Middlesbrough is the ghost of our future if something doesn't turnaround soon but I can't see how, and the Northern Powerhouse has so far bypassed our part of the north. It's chilling.

Given the backlash against the murderers, we perceive the public absolutely fine thanks.

Leave us to grieve and gather everything we need to bring these low life's to justice.

'Then you get events like this when your leave gets cancelled and your wife has to take the kids on holiday without you.'

Plus the worry that you go on shift tonight and some lowlife driving on the wrong side of the road ends up ploughing into your car.

I think we need a new word for actual working class people! Who actually work!
I’m working class and my family and friends aren’t like them!
In our village it’s outsiders in posh cars who come and buy drugs from parked cars! Who also don’t live in the village!!

Whose cars were they burning?

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/26505865.a66-crash-victims-home-reportedly-rammed-fatal-crash/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwdGRjcAT-qcRjbGNrBP6pwnBkb2YFZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMzUwNjg1NTMxNzI4AAEeujpqsfEdPCMwVQRZpwO4E1NY8PQDxBvIKw0WCJJ71BnZ5NuTygeciWC1Ow4_aem_2nEOg9pztJ9y_93aD_fNLg#Echobox=1787939080

Steph McGovern (born in Middlesbrough) wrote a very good post about Middlesbrough related to this topic and the reasons why this may have happened

its on Facebook