AIBU to ask what is happening in Middlesbrough at the moment?

It must be horrible. I have quite a lot of lovely law abiding friends /former colleagues in Middlesbrough and I feel worried and sad for them right now. And it's clearly not the only place this is happening

Agree. The "beautiful" houses mentioned earlier will have their fair share of occupants who made their money from crime. The people at the bottom are small players in a nasty game. But they still need dealing with. We can't have lawless roads just because some of the criminal drivers are also victims.

And aren’t drug dealers amongst the rich on Merseyside, private schooling for their DC’s alongside celebrities and footballers. All accepted.

The UK really does need to take stock. The approach has to be multi faceted, more prison, tighter judicial system, zero tolerance for those already engaged whilst long term social support and change as prevention for the future. Break the cycle.
An improved judicial system is essential. Some of those involved at the minute are out on bail (yet have unlicensed weapons!). They should all be locked up (and yes I know, they wouldn’t, for whatever reason, meet the criteria…which will have risen through lack of prison places…)

This is an excellent point - the whole philosophy of policing organised crime has always been about building up a case against the bosses, which generally necessitates ignoring the low level stuff and turning a blind eye to the misery it causes. But bosses can be replaced easily enough, there's always someone waiting in the wings.

I wonder whether in fact working from the bottom up - relentlessly arresting and imprisoning the lower level workers, might be a better way? If you can't sell your merchandise through lack of sellers, then you are out of business.

Just been reported that another house “ramming” probably linked

💯 this! People are so focused on throwing young groomed gang members into prison, not realising that all that does is create a job vacancy on the street. Impriosned, killed whatever- they’re replaced in hours

that's exactly the reason the police aim to smash the gangs, and target minor street gang members less. It’s a hiding to nothing as they’re completely disposable. Disrupt the supply and you get somewhere

There is nothing in the article to say they are linked. Just that they were near each other.
Why do you say its linked?

Smash the gangs sounds just like smashing the boats.

We are a soft country let’s face it. There is always an excuse or a reason. Plenty of people ready to step into the last “gangsters” empty shoes. Because it’s cool brev, hard man innit. 🙄

Remember when dealers hid away now they advertise on snap and a bag of coke can be at your house faster than a pizza.

Nail on the head. The police, generally, DO know who is involved in organised crime, but seem to want (in some cases) to let it happen whilst they try to build cases against the top people, sometimes for years. Meanwhile, lots of harm is done to drug users (addiction), society (crimes to pay to buy drugs), etc which seems to be "acceptable" collateral damage in the main aim of getting the top people. The police don't tend to bother at the "bottom" end either because they know it's a waste of time when the CPS often won't prosecute and even if they do, the Courts give lenient sentences.

It's all a big fat mess.

Perhaps the Middlesbrough police deaths may knock some sense into politicians, courts, CPS and police to start tackling street level drug crime, and money laundering, modern slavery etc., around it. If anything "good" can come of it, I hope the Middlesbrough travesty can be a catalyst to stop the acceptance of low level crime. We really could do with some kind of "x strikes and you're out" sentencing to stop these scrotes who rack up multiple offences and freed to carry on without effective sanctions.

By way of letting these people roam the streets knowing what they are doing and with many convictions in many cases then yes that is too soft.

Four of the people in that car had multiple convictions at their ages and where free to roam around with enough confidence that they would get away with what they were doing still committing crimes or that any punishment was meh.

There are far more gang problems in other countries, are they softer? America, China, Mexico, Cambodia?

Nail on the head. The police, generally, DO know who is involved in organised crime, but seem to want (in some cases) to let it happen whilst they try to build cases against the top people, sometimes for years. Meanwhile, lots of harm is done to drug users (addiction), society (crimes to pay to buy drugs), etc which seems to be "acceptable" collateral damage in the main aim of getting the top people. The police don't tend to bother at the "bottom" end either because they know it's a waste of time when the CPS often won't prosecute and even if they do, the Courts give lenient sentences.

It's all a big fat mess.

Perhaps the Middlesbrough police deaths may knock some sense into politicians, courts, CPS and police to start tackling street level drug crime, and money laundering, modern slavery etc., around it. If anything "good" can come of it, I hope the Middlesbrough travesty can be a catalyst to stop the acceptance of low level crime. We really could do with some kind of "x strikes and you're out" sentencing to stop these scrotes who rack up multiple offences and freed to carry on without effective sanctions.

Smash the gangs sounds just like smashing the boats.

We are a soft country let’s face it. There is always an excuse or a reason. Plenty of people ready to step into the last “gangsters” empty shoes. Because it’s cool brev, hard man innit. 🙄

Remember when dealers hid away now they advertise on snap and a bag of coke can be at your house faster than a pizza.

But they ARE ignoring it at street level in their aim to spend years building cases against Mr Big.

Do you think unless there are zero gangs and drugs, it’s not “working

Funny, because you are the one who brought it up.

Organised criminal gangs DO HAVE corrupt accountants, lawyers, etc - how else do you think they manage to start all the money laundering businesses, etc. How do you think organised criminal gangs get forged passports, or can open bank accounts in fake names, or get false/cloned number plates made up? They have their own networks of criminals.

Anyway, lots of illiterate and innumerate people successfully run their own businesses because THEY DO engage legitimate lawyers and accountants etc to help them, i.e. they engage book-keepers to raise invoices, pay bills, etc, they employ accountants to deal with tax returns, etc etc. I'm a small accountancy practice and have had loads of such clients who basically pay others to do everything they can't do themselves. It's only like how lots of them use phone answering services, or social media marketing assistants, etc. Very few small business owners do everything themselves with no professional help at all!

Setting up a small simple business as a sole really really isn't complex. Lots of info online that is just a google click away, etc.

Nail on the head. The police, generally, DO know who is involved in organised crime, but seem to want (in some cases) to let it happen whilst they try to build cases against the top people, sometimes for years. Meanwhile, lots of harm is done to drug users (addiction), society (crimes to pay to buy drugs), etc which seems to be "acceptable" collateral damage in the main aim of getting the top people. The police don't tend to bother at the "bottom" end either because they know it's a waste of time when the CPS often won't prosecute and even if they do, the Courts give lenient sentences.

It's all a big fat mess.

Perhaps the Middlesbrough police deaths may knock some sense into politicians, courts, CPS and police to start tackling street level drug crime, and money laundering, modern slavery etc., around it. If anything "good" can come of it, I hope the Middlesbrough travesty can be a catalyst to stop the acceptance of low level crime. We really could do with some kind of "x strikes and you're out" sentencing to stop these scrotes who rack up multiple offences and freed to carry on without effective sanctions.

I don’t understand the conversion. I never said it was zero or indeed, working. However I have seen some brilliant documentaries about how police deal with OCGs and it’s not like they’re ignoring it. Don’t you think the police know more than you how to deal with organised crime?