AIBU to ask what is happening in Middlesbrough at the moment?

It has most certainly escalated since then and they are trying to quell it. It will be costing an absolute fortune to do this although I suspect central government will be contributing.

Funnily enough I had literally this conversation on another thread with oblivious people who lived in six bedroom country piles, which led to my new username. I used the word dystopian, they used the word shithole, and back they went to their lovely lives. Unless you live in or near these places you have no idea what’s going on.

Where are these “extra” officers coming from?
other forces. They haven’t magicked up more police, they’re redistributing resources.
the police have been saying for years they need more officers and staff. But they get what they get.

Agree - Having observed the chaos that has broken out, these events could have been just as easily triggered by police action that was under resourced. Then the public may not even have been as supportive.

They've somehow managed to maintain a balance on the surface, while things have slowly degraded. Now they're having to throw as much manpower at it as possible and something is having to be done.

And who wants to join the police force now knowing that those things are likely to happen, to police a country where these behaviours are more valued than law and order, as clearly evidenced by wages and conditions.

Think about it.

Where are these “extra” officers coming from?

other forces. They haven’t magicked up more police, they’re redistributing resources.

the police have been saying for years they need more officers and staff. But they get what they get.

the 20000 officers Boris promised? Yeah well that came with no funding so forces had to cut other resources to pay for them. So fewer support staff, forensics services, intel officers who all tend to be staff. A lot of the drugs intel is developed by staff before an action programme is drawn up by officers.

Cleveland police no doubt would have loved extra staff to deal with this before is happened. But it has, and other forces are now going short staffed creating problems there, and officers are will be getting their leave cancelled. So many will have school holiday leave booked they now have cancelled to send them to Cleveland.

it isn’t as simple as “drafting in” officers. Most forces are running on the minimum and don’t have staff to spare.

In usual circumstances, that is not how intelligence gathering works. Usually overtime, undercover, planned Ops.

This is different as it is reactive to daily, emerging situations, in response.

The degradation of culture that has led to these people existing and whole areas of Britain being effectively lawless has many causes. The destruction of the working classes. The destruction of work. The destruction of the economy. The destruction of the values of work, and, yes, its replacement by easy policies on giving handouts. The desperation that drives ever more violent films and media to be sold, holding up the values of lawlessness as something to aspire to. The growth of the internet and the lowest common denominator of selling techniques.

People in power were warned about the growth of violence, the lack of support for working values. They were warned. They didn’t listen. They didn’t care. And now all we will hear is how the locals are entirely to blame.

Culture is a complex and delicate thing, but it is driven from the top. I no longer recognise this country. I wish I could leave and I will be encouraging my youngsters to do so.

It may be worth, if you still believe in British democracy and other myths, looking up the Jarrow March. This year is also the anniversary of the 1926 General Strike. Imperialism never lasts but it does keep coming round and it always causes the same problems.

Why weren't they drafted in before the 2 police officers were killed? Did all this crime wave only start that night?

I agree and it's why I have "some" hope that Andy Burnham may start to make a difference to improve the run down regions that have been ignored for decades. I live in a run down seaside resort that's been declining since the 80s, very similar to the decline of the ex-industrial areas. No jobs, those who go to Uni never come back to the home town, run down properties, High street been dominated by charity shops and bookies for a couple of decades, now taken over my money laundering barbers, ethnic shops, nail bars, vape shops etc. Ex-boarding houses now house "problem" people such as newly released prisoners literally bussed in from big cities by the council, again for past 2/3 decades, nothing recent, then the council wonder why street crime etc has shot up! All the people in "naice" places who've not seen it really can't appreciate what it's like to see previously prosperous and successful places turned into dumping grounds.

You're not making sense. The exact reason extra police have been drafted in is to deal with ongoing and current upsurge in crime that is affecting all the residents of the area. They haven't done it because 2 police officers have been killed.

Totally agree. I’m from a similar type of town with similar issues - suicide rates amongst young working class males in these types of communities are also very high.

It’s a really complex situation and a longtime in the making with no easy, quick solutions. There are lots of people within these communities - including the police, schools, youth workers, sports coaches, etc., - who are trying their best and working so hard to make a difference; I think it would be a good start if the government listened to these people, as I’m sure their insight and ideas about what to do would be sound.

I grew up in Nunthorpe, I never thought of it as a village, it’s not separate.

As PP said the country does have to take the blame, there has been no investment and what industry there has been is gone and not replaced. I find there is a perception that some people think it’s okay because where they live is okay and that’s all that matters, but this rot sets in and it spreads. Criminality can’t be contained.

I just had a quick deep dive and it seems like Middleborough has the biggest crime stats outside of London and is being terrorised by balaclava-wearing youth that are so intimidating that local people are no longer reporting crime for fear of retaliation. Its obvious the has been simmering for a bloody long time and it’s obviously one of those community/depravation issues that’s just not going to be solved unless you go in there, round all the criminals up El Salvador style, and get them off the streets.

I disagree. With low levels of policing, the force will have had to strategise and prioritise. Now, with all eyes on Teesside, events have over taken them and something has to be done to get a handle on it.
Imo they can only get a handle on it with long term measures. They need to build trust in people that they will be protected long term from any repercussions if they go to the police as victims of crime.
Putting in extra police for a few weeks is not going to be enough.

It's a suburb of Middlesbrough

It’s half Middlesbrough council, half Redcar and Cleveland. I briefly lived in the Middlesbrough side of nunthorpe

And Middlesbrough isn’t classed as a city

I think this whole situation is a result of ignoring perceived lower level crime to not escalate community tensions and then decades pass by and he problem gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I suspect at the heart of this will be a fight for turf when it comes to drug dealing or similar and now we have a new generation of crime-hardened teens thinking there’s no law that can touch them and reprisals everytime someone dies or gets hurt.

Yes, but I said I wasn't talking about them. I meant the people of Middlesborough whose lives have been blighted by the gangs, and the other lives lost to their crimes.

Oh come on, nunthorpe is a north yorkshire village, not tbe city id Middlesbrough!

Yes. The lives of those two policemen were more important than the scum also involved in the accident. And I think the rabble rousers should be thankful it’s only the police being deployed. I think it’s actually a job for the army.

Teeside was a highly industrialised area, which has now lost a lot of that industry. Those jobs kept the area going, shops etc. Nothing replaced that industry. Jobs are low paid, uncertain, non existent.

I don’t live in an area like that, never have, but I have spent time in the NE as I had friends who lived near Middlesbrough. The area has been abandoned and discarded once it fulfilled its purpose as an industrial hub. The people I met in the NE are lovely, genuine, warm people. The low lives in the news are just the usual headline grabbers.

My friends had to move out of the area to better themselves. But they were older and had the benefit of a decent state education. Hard for people whose whole families have lived deprived lives to see a way out. Joining gangs, easy money, social media must seem an exciting way to live within a bleak area. Not excusing them at all.

But as a country, we must also take some blame. We think we have it bad sometimes but we don’t know the half of it. I genuinely would pay a lot more tax if it was redeployed in a meaningful way to area like Teeside.

I see school kids travelling to school on e scooters.

This is a fairly nice suburban town which yes - have some areas of extreme social deprivation but on the whole is ok.

but this is what the problems are starting with. Parents Buying illegal stuff for their school aged children as if it’s unimportant.

and yes, every now and again the police do a round up and they are destroyed.

But my point is - across society there seems to be an increase in a lack of respect for the rules and law.

What we’re seeing in Middlesbrough is when that gets out of control and becomes the norm in a community.

I saw a boy of about eight or nine out on his bicycle yesterday evening. Hot and muggy weather, and he’s in a teeshirt and shorts. And a black balaclava pulled right down covering his face to his neck. Only eyes showing. It’s not the best part of town, but someone must have known he had it and bought it for him. I was quite shocked.

Don’t be like that.

Our school was vandalised many years ago.

Loraine teachers and staff from local schools came to help after the school reopened.

Because they are colleagues and get the role and therefore the devastation it caused beyond that that could be seen.

In the same way neighbours help neighbours.

You’re just taking words and twitching them to make a negative where there was clearly none intended.