Page 9 | To believe that we need to create two hundred more Grammar Schools for the Shires of England.

redange · 2026-08-26T11:28:56+00:00

To believe England needs two hundred new Grammar schools across the country and in doing this take the number of English Grammar Schools to 363. I appreciate this is a post that is going to lead to me being called names and for posters to be looking at spelling and grammar mistakes as a means of belittlement . Nonetheless, there must be support among some posters for the lifting of the 1998 Labour Ban on the creation of Grammar Schools where there is a desire or clear need. The only Grammar School that has been built since 1965 being the Weal Of Kent Grammar Annexe in Sevenoaks . Surely if the country is going to be able to grow economically, we need to revisit the idea of selective education across Sport, Art and academic rigour. It is also not impossible that a fairer and more equitable system of selection could be introduced alongside the 11+ exam. Thus, in doing so access to selective education should not be a 'one and only' chance. I think this is where a lot of people have problems, because they see selective education through the prism of pass or fail. Pass or Fail does not mean the same today as it meant in 1965 because firstly the advent of a single exam system of GCSE's and A levels that all pupils take or can advance to.

PinkWaffleMaker · 28/08/2026 23:14

Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 22:11

@PinkWaffleMaker yes some parts of Oxfordshire are somewhat deprived and run down - but not really "dodgy" which was the word you used (or rather no more dodgy than 100s of other areas of the UK).

But I have also been to blackbird leys 😂

Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 22:44

Imaginingdragonsagain · 28/08/2026 22:38

Wish we had more grammars to be honest. Our comp school doesn’t stream for anything other than maths and therefore most lessons seem to be driven for a grade 4/5 level- don’t seem to help the struggling students or those capable of more.

Wouldn't it be better to want a comprehensive school that does stream (or have sets) rather than a separate school?

Imaginingdragonsagain · 28/08/2026 22:38

Wish we had more grammars to be honest. Our comp school doesn’t stream for anything other than maths and therefore most lessons seem to be driven for a grade 4/5 level- don’t seem to help the struggling students or those capable of more.

Denim4ever · 28/08/2026 22:32

The city I grew up in went fully comprehensive in the early 70s. It has for many years had a state sixth form that's consistently produced results that place it in the top ten state A Level settings in the country. There's great provision locally for music, arts and sports in schools across the board. Having a 'grammar school' would be utterly pointless

Mama2many73 · 28/08/2026 22:30

redange · 26/08/2026 20:01

All teachers will public-ally criticise Selective education while doing there upmost to access Grammar schools or Scholarships for their own children. This apart from my Mother who was a ex Grammar School deputy head and my sister who is head of Sixth Form at a Lincolnshire Grammar ! Sister is a great advocate of fully selective education system across the country.

The real reason that teachers use Grammar Schools is because they know the score, but dare not say it out loud. Teachers who have children at Grammars always say conveniently, 'we could not help it because the local area is Selective' this of course is protection from being called a 'Tory' by the Militants who control education.

2 teachers here in the North East of England. Our ds went to our local secondary school. We have several teachers in the family and all kids have gone to their local secondary. NONE.have gone to grammar / selective / private .
Personally I think all kids should have equal opportunities to education but also believe that academic education is not suitable for all . We need a massive overhaul of how we educate our teens (and before).
Our ds school (20yrs ago) used to do 3 pathways
Full academic (gcse)
Mix of vocational and gcses
Mainly vocational (+maths/english)

They now only do the full academic route. HOW is that progress??
But I dont agree that grammar school would benefit kids from such schools. Many parents cannot afford tutoring etc in the way other parents can and therefore it is only open to the parents rich enough to do this.

Bushmillsbabe · 28/08/2026 22:30

Mydoglovescheese · 28/08/2026 08:35

I went to a grammar school 5 miles away from my home and did well academically, although I didn’t particularly enjoy the experience. However, my parents had to pay for travel fares and in those days an expensive uniform which they could ill afford. I didn’t have any local friends as there was open hostility towards grammar school kids.

When I had children we deliberately moved out of the area to a town where there are no grammar schools. My children attended the local comprehensive school. The school catered for all ability levels and my children did very well academically. They also had local friends and were happier in a school where there was less focus on academic achievement and a more rounded educational approach.

My grandchildren live in a grammar school area and the pressure on 10/11 year olds to ‘pass’ the 11+ is immense. Kids from as far away as 40 miles travel in to the grammar schools each day.

I strongly believe that grammar schools should be abolished and resources allocated to improving comprehensive schools and providing first class education for every child.

I wish we had done same re moving. We moved into Bucks when our DD's were 1 and 5, during covid. I took an exam for a private school scholarship (got it but declined it as didn't like the school, got all A's from a dodgy comp) when I was 12, no prep, just turned up with pencil case and lunch and we did exams in morning and group activities in afternoon, my mum said 'do your best' and that was it.

I vaguely knew Bucks had grammars but naively thought would be like that - give it a go, fine whatever happens. What I have seen this year, the pressure put on 10 year olds, the concept that they are a 'failure' if they don't pass, the 'lines' already being drawn between those seriously aiming to go to grammar and those who aren't (clear friendship shifts over past few months) all indicates to me that grammar is a terrible idea, but it's too late for us to move, and DD1 has worked far to hard for us to take this away from her.

SadiraOfTyr · 28/08/2026 22:30

redange · 28/08/2026 22:03

Ok I am educated by that ! I think most schools in Hampshire do not have Sixth Forms and was being a bit flippant about the type of county Oxfordshire is likely to be. I envisage a split County that is either part of the 'Cotswold' set and Serious Wealth, or Middle Class Sandal Wearing Liberal Democrat Supporting Ecologists. The Cotswold lot being all Public School Educated and everybody else being Comprehensive Educated

Well, at least you have a good imagination, if only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 22:11

@PinkWaffleMaker yes some parts of Oxfordshire are somewhat deprived and run down - but not really "dodgy" which was the word you used (or rather no more dodgy than 100s of other areas of the UK).

Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 22:08

@redange Hampshire has 6th Form Colleges though. They are just another type of school really just for 16-19 year olds !
You have some very strange views - both on education and "the shires".

PinkWaffleMaker · 28/08/2026 22:08

Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 20:51

Have you met North Oxfordshire?
Not awful ("dodgy") but also not posh and expensive 😂

Show quote history

Only 7 UK local authorities had less deprivation than Oxfordshire in 2025, 145 local authorities were ranked higher for deprivation.

https://data.oxfordshire.gov.uk/imd-2025/

I’m really not surprised its schools do better than average.

Oxfordshire Data Hub – Oxfordshire Indices of Deprivation 2025 – Oxfordshire Data Hub

https://data.oxfordshire.gov.uk/imd-2025

Original poster

redange · 28/08/2026 22:03

Ok I am educated by that ! I think most schools in Hampshire do not have Sixth Forms and was being a bit flippant about the type of county Oxfordshire is likely to be. I envisage a split County that is either part of the 'Cotswold' set and Serious Wealth, or Middle Class Sandal Wearing Liberal Democrat Supporting Ecologists. The Cotswold lot being all Public School Educated and everybody else being Comprehensive Educated

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Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 21:54

@redange Most Oxfordshire schools have 6th Forms 😂
Why on earth would you think they haven't?
Edit :
I checked. There are 39 secondary schools in Oxfordshire.
Only 6 do not have 6th Forms.

Original poster

redange · 28/08/2026 21:18

Oxfordshire, is one County I don't know much about however the mere fact Oxfordshire has five Liberal Democrat MP's tells me all I need to know about it. I bet without researching the Comprehensives are all similar, FSM about 15-17% with average Comps achieving around 55-60% @ Grade 5 at English and Maths. I bet like Hampshire many Comps don't even have Sixth Forms, because 'Oxfordshire' people like Sixth Form Colleges where no uniform or School rules apply. Therefore, a perfect breeding ground for 'Safe' Socialism for 16-18 year old ! Thus, the one or two Comps who have Sixth Forms I bet achieve around Average grades of B at A Level. Thus enabling proud Socialists to Proclaim loudly who needs Grammar Schools !

Anothermoonin. my Mother must have done the best for both me and my Cambridge educated Sister then. You like to define yourself as from a Working Class Background, as if this creates some kind of obtuse 'agency' in understanding the world of education beyond those from a Working Class background. For the record I have never been ' Working Class', never will be and the last link i think to the Working Class my family has is around 1890 ! Thus, as such I enjoyed a materially Privileged Childhood and continually do so in my early 50's. The truth being, I would never have ended up at a Secondary Modern, but lets not get that in the way of your Class Activism.

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Needmorelego · 28/08/2026 20:51

PinkWaffleMaker · 28/08/2026 20:42

Oxfordshire is an incredibly expensive place to live. I know there is the odd dodgy part but overall I imagine just being able to afford to live in the area is quite self selecting.

Show quote history

Have you met North Oxfordshire?
Not awful ("dodgy") but also not posh and expensive 😂

PinkWaffleMaker · 28/08/2026 20:42

hushabybaby · 28/08/2026 08:32

Oxfordshire does not have the grammar school system, and the state schools are fantastic.

Oxfordshire is an incredibly expensive place to live. I know there is the odd dodgy part but overall I imagine just being able to afford to live in the area is quite self selecting.

Mydoglovescheese · 28/08/2026 08:35

I went to a grammar school 5 miles away from my home and did well academically, although I didn’t particularly enjoy the experience. However, my parents had to pay for travel fares and in those days an expensive uniform which they could ill afford. I didn’t have any local friends as there was open hostility towards grammar school kids.

When I had children we deliberately moved out of the area to a town where there are no grammar schools. My children attended the local comprehensive school. The school catered for all ability levels and my children did very well academically. They also had local friends and were happier in a school where there was less focus on academic achievement and a more rounded educational approach.

My grandchildren live in a grammar school area and the pressure on 10/11 year olds to ‘pass’ the 11+ is immense. Kids from as far away as 40 miles travel in to the grammar schools each day.

I strongly believe that grammar schools should be abolished and resources allocated to improving comprehensive schools and providing first class education for every child.

hushabybaby · 28/08/2026 08:32

Oxfordshire does not have the grammar school system, and the state schools are fantastic.

Wordsmithery · 28/08/2026 08:18

If there was money to burn I'd far rather it was poured into the existing comps, offering more trade/tech routes for non-academics and reducing class sizes. It's perfectly possible to do brilliantly at a comp and you don't need grammar schools to help the country grow economically.

Anothermoomin · 28/08/2026 08:05

redange · 27/08/2026 21:43

Who knows one day i might need Pip, I am able to give it away at present . Secondly attaining 10 points gives clarity to my own disabilities, though for many years i just attempted to function as if I had no Disabilities. I decided to apply after my diagnosis came through to validate the findings. It also enables me to understand what a Face-Face Assessment entails if we/DS chooses to apply for PIP. in the future. A successful Pip application can enable protections against Universal Credit DWP rules and Searching or engaging in interviews . This is an absolute lifeline for Disabled People and being placed in LWCA despite ESA Support group people being all transferred to Universal Credit.

Hopefully, DS will never be in a position where he we need to apply for Universal Credit or risk being 'Sanctioned' for not filling in a work book but taking precautions is no bad thing ! For the record I was given a 10 year award in 2016 so awaiting Re -Assessment which i believe will be done via a more simple form given my 10 year award !

Politics or Political leanings should never be a straight line, I think a lot of posters on here are slaves to one Political Party or Pathway.

The only way you got to grammar school is because you mum spent no end of time with you. Can’t you see how unfair that is? Your mother coached you and you got in. If you came from a different family you would not have passed because of your dyslexia. And then according to you you’d have got no quals and had to beg for a job.
You can see the unfairness but not make the link.
You are condemning other dyslexic young people - like yourself - to be educated in a secondary modern but you don’t care. You don’t care about others with the same educational struggles you have because you did well and were coached to pass.

You also have a very low opinion of yourself. You believe you would have done nothing without the grammar school, got zero quals. I have dyslexia and am ND, I must be a similar ge to you. I failed my 11+ but like many dyslexics my talents became apparent as I got older. I passed O levels and A levels and went to university without grammar school. I was eventually diagnosed while at uni - long story very unusual at the time. I came from a working class family with little knowledge of education they couldn’t coach me to pass the 11+ but they taught me to care for others and to want to raise up everybody and not pull up the ladder behind me. Your mother taught you to pass the exam but she didn’t teach you empathy.

I went into education to help people like you who didn’t pass but who were bright, children who need help to fulfil their potential. I’ll say it again, I want to help young you, you want young me chucked in a bin.

This is one of the things that drives me mad about grammar school supporters - I’m alright jack - don’t want to help others, it’s shameful.

SunnyRedSnail · 27/08/2026 22:36

redange · 26/08/2026 15:35

Unfortunately academic selection is one of the only ways to out behavioural problems out of schools , the other way is through paying or Private Education. The only way to get the very people involved in the A66 outrage for instance out of your Daughters/Son schools for instance is either though academic selection or to pay for it. Thus, the bar for selection could be altered and different levels of Grammar schools could exist via Selective Sport/Art schools. Also different levels of Grammar schools via tier 1 top 10% tier 2 top 25% and tier 3 ones taking top 40% which would enable bright children with SEN needs to gain access or relatively academically ordinary children who worked efficiently and behaved well !

No it's not.

Instead of grammar schools we need borstal/military boarding schools for kids aged 14+.

Compulsory for any child with a criminal record. And an option for other children that cannot respect the learning of others that would suit a more physical educational setting.

Teach them self respect, discipline, self esteem etc...

Bushmillsbabe · 27/08/2026 22:25

redange · 27/08/2026 09:58

So i make a mistake posting upmost opposed to utmost and people condemn me. I make thousands of grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes that does not define me, rather undiagnosed issues such as Dyslexia Irlens Autism and 60% deafness in left hear might do ! These, have only been diagnosed in the last 10 years and highlight issues I have had all my life. Despite these issues yes i did pass my 11+ and go to University. At times having to rewrite University essays up to three times because of multiple spelling, punctuation and grammar. The content was always strong, perhaps not the spag. So if you want to disagree with my admittedly regressive though i prefer conservative ideas, do so don't criticise them based on missed words, punctuation issues or wrongly spelt words. Remember, due to seven learning disabilities co-existing I have to work twice as hard as many to produce postings of similar clarity to them.

Fully, Selective means an area where the majority or large numbers of pupils will take the 11+. In Kent with the exception of a little strip of land near Tenterden is all 11+. Thus, unless you are close to Sussex you are in the 11+ regardless of whether you want to. Lincolnshire is similar unless you live around Lincoln which is Comprehensive. Buckinghamshire offers schools such as Waddesdon, highlighting how Grammar Schools in a area can lift non Grammar Schools far. Trafford is an area where access is available to Manchester, Cheshire East and Warrington in particular Lymm High, all these areas are Comprehensive. However, it is the school that was deemed thirty years ago as a real 'Secondary Modern' that shines brightly Wellington in Timperley which again has been transformed because it lives around four Grammar Schools !

Living in south bucks, I don't agree that having grammar schools lifts all the local schools. We have 4 grammar schools within 3 miles of us. Most of the non selective secondaries apart from the Catholic one get pretty poor results. The area is very divided academically and the pressure on 10 year olds very high as there is few decent non grammar options. Out of DD1's class of 28, 20 wrote at end of year 5 that the thing they were most worried about was the 11+. Many have spent their summers in tutors 'camps' doing mock after mock as they are so desperate to avoid the failing non grammars. My daughter is able, determined and hard working and hopefully will pass, but it only takes her being unwell or sleeping badly the night before and that's her consigned to a failing non selective. I think they should be phased out, or the selection process significantly adjusted to account for socioeconomic factors, state vs private primary, take into account broader factors such a sport, music, being 'well rounded'.

Needmorelego · 27/08/2026 21:54

@redange ok. Bit weird... but ok 🤷
My daughter gets PIP but we (as a family) don't get any UC for us we literally need the money.

Original poster

redange · 27/08/2026 21:43

Who knows one day i might need Pip, I am able to give it away at present . Secondly attaining 10 points gives clarity to my own disabilities, though for many years i just attempted to function as if I had no Disabilities. I decided to apply after my diagnosis came through to validate the findings. It also enables me to understand what a Face-Face Assessment entails if we/DS chooses to apply for PIP. in the future. A successful Pip application can enable protections against Universal Credit DWP rules and Searching or engaging in interviews . This is an absolute lifeline for Disabled People and being placed in LWCA despite ESA Support group people being all transferred to Universal Credit.

Hopefully, DS will never be in a position where he we need to apply for Universal Credit or risk being 'Sanctioned' for not filling in a work book but taking precautions is no bad thing ! For the record I was given a 10 year award in 2016 so awaiting Re -Assessment which i believe will be done via a more simple form given my 10 year award !

Politics or Political leanings should never be a straight line, I think a lot of posters on here are slaves to one Political Party or Pathway.

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Needmorelego · 27/08/2026 20:58

@redange huh....you receive PIP but give it away??
Why did you bother to apply for it?

Original poster

redange · 27/08/2026 20:40

Sorry typos 43 years ago in 1983 I took my 11+ at 10 years and 5 months old...

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