To think a man with five kids he barely sees won’t be considered a catch on the dating scene?

What have ‘other women’ got to do with this?

Sounds like my daughter’s father, and somehow women fall at his feet. I would never touch a man who didn’t bother with his children.

So if a man doesnt see his kids and his shit dad angle it doesnt have anything to do with his wider general character ....

make sure you are saying the same for "other women." Afterall if they are loving and kind daughters, sisters, friends and it bears no reflection on their character overall.

right?

I agree that sometimes the women are psychos.
One I know (she later admitted it herself to a close friend) lied about her dp hitting her.
Got a restraining order against him.

Backfired because during this time he found someone else. 😁

Of course she was very jealous but tough shit.
Anybody who lies about that sort of thing and wastes police resources has zero sympathy from me.

Depends on your expectations in a relationship and your definition of commitment or responsibility.

Also ‘abandoned’? They are with their mothers, not walking the streets.

If someone wants kids with someone who already has no contact with his existing kids, then that’s up to them but they can’t be surprised when history repeats itself.

There is a vast amount of nuance between ONS/FWB and sharing children together.

I wouldn’t put myself in a position where splitting would disadvantage me in any practical way in any case and it amazes me that people do. Independence means you can have the romantic relationship without the negative stuff.

If a man has 5 children, he shouldn’t have time to date anyone! The fact that he does tells you something about his character.

Any relationship that doesn’t involve a man making any commitment or taking any responsibility is a shit one. Yes, that doesn’t necessarily apply to a ONS, but I don’t think that’s what the OP had in mind.

If he can't be relied upon to be there for his own flesh and blood, who can rely on him?

For a casual, FWB arrangement, fine. Not an ltr, though.

And the women (like OP) usually have more than one child with the man!

It’s not his “skills as a father” though, having not one but 5 living children and abandoning them when you have a moral obligation to raise, physically, financially and emotionally is a huge character flaw and says a lot about a person.
If you would be happy to date a man who has abandoned multiple women to raise multiple of his children and he doesn’t step up to his responsibilities that’s on you, but it is a red flag.
It’s honestly weird that you would argue about this.

Dating someone but not having children says nothing about your independence or dependence. People with children aren’t the only ones seeking committed relationship.

Abandoning 5 children suggests a problem to connect with people, a massive issue with empathy, a lack of commitment, no sense of financial responsibility and an antisocial level of selfishness. All of these are red flags when looking to enter a romantic relationship.

Perhaps you struggle with relationships and human emotions yourself if you can’t see that.

It's nothing to do with the intention of having even more kids with him, it's about his character.

I agree and I think the women have to take a certain amount of responsibility for that. Diving into a relationship and having kids in the blind hope that he will be different this time is not a healthy thing to do

But if you plan to be independent within the relationship then why does it matter? If you aren’t planning to have kids then his skills as a father are irrelevant.

There may be other flaws but that’s the case for everyone. It isn’t a huge flaw in isolation.

Many people have awful judge on these matters. We get plenty of threads from women on here who have ended up with men with an obvious lack of commitment to their previous families, and the woman is seemingly very surprised that the guy doesn't turn out to be terribly committed to her and her children either!

I disagree, being a shit dad is a major character flaw.
It is both glib and stupid to suggest otherwise.
If a man does not give a shit about his own children, he is unlikely to give a fuck about anyone else around him.

Oh he may appear to when the going is good but not when things get bad.

No you are right: it isn't always wrong by any means. And I thought as I typed that actually OP IS concerned!

But as a general starting point ...

I often read on here, that the ex, who has just left the children to the OP, will be sad. In reality, the ones who are ok at face value, are good looking and have time to date (because they aren't seeing their children), have a good time by shagging about. They settle down 55+, sometimes their sons get back in touch and all is forgiven. Women should have children, if they want them and then just comfort themselves with they got them, because you can't bank on men or karma.

I do like to be around decent people, yes.

Oordinary adult commitments and responsibilities that form part of being a decent, reliable person, rather than specifically being a parent:

• Keeping your word — doing what you said you’d do, or telling people promptly if you can’t.
• Showing up for people — friends, partners, family members, colleagues, neighbours, etc., particularly when they genuinely need you.
• Reciprocity — not continually taking emotional, practical or financial support without giving anything back.
• Caring for ageing or vulnerable relatives — within reasonable limits; not necessarily becoming their full-time carer.
• Maintaining important relationships — making some effort rather than expecting everyone else to carry the relationship.
• Being dependable — people should broadly be able to rely on you.
• Taking responsibility for your own life — finances, health, home, work, appointments, admin, pets, etc.
• Looking after your pets properly — food, exercise, veterinary care, safety and companionship.
• Paying your debts and bills — and not deliberately leaving other people to absorb your costs.
• Being financially responsible — living within your means where reasonably possible and planning for foreseeable expenses.
• Contributing to your household — not expecting another adult to do the invisible work by default.
• Being a good neighbour — reasonable consideration for noise, shared spaces, parking, rubbish, pets, etc.
• Honouring professional commitments — doing your job properly and respecting other people’s time.
• Respecting other people’s time — cancelling, being late, or changing plans when necessary rather than simply assuming they’ll accommodate you.
• Apologising and making amends when you’ve genuinely caused harm or inconvenience.
• Being honest — particularly when dishonesty would materially affect someone else’s decisions.
• Respecting boundaries — accepting that other adults are allowed to say no, have different priorities and make their own choices.
• Not exploiting people’s goodwill — whether that’s a friend, partner, sibling, parent, colleague or service provider.
• Helping when you reasonably can — without turning every act of kindness into an obligation.
• Reciprocating hospitality — not necessarily identically, but making some effort when people regularly accommodate or support you.
• Taking care of your shared environment — leaving places, possessions and communal spaces reasonably well.
• Being a responsible member of society — following laws, paying taxes, voting if you choose to, disposing of rubbish properly, etc.
• Having some responsibility towards your community — volunteering, helping neighbours, participating in organisations, donating, or simply being useful in some way.
• Taking responsibility when things go wrong — rather than immediately finding someone else to blame.
• Planning ahead where your absence would affect others — making arrangements rather than leaving emergencies for someone else to sort out.
• Not making your problems everyone else’s problems — while still being willing to ask for help when you genuinely need it.
• Treating people decently even when you don’t need anything from them — arguably the most basic one.

I don't understand it at all 😞!

That makes no sense

Exactly. My brothers partner passed away so he has the kids full time. He's a great guy but understands that it's too much to ask of someone to take on. Yet I know so many men who take zero responsibility for their children and can find partners easily.

The only concern I would have about a man having children with different women and not bothering with them would be that he was used to being with women who would naively get into the situation despite his past, and that he therefore expected that of any woman he dated.

Good!

Which is something to take into consideration only if you need commitment or responsibility from him.

You’d be surprised. He will probably lie and say mum/s won’t let him see them or how toxic mum is!

But some women don’t seem to be put off by it generally - I would be for sure!

my mother in laws partner (whom she’s been with for 20 years!) has 6 kids (5 with 1 mum, 1 with another) which he never sees, all adults now but they weren’t when they met! I don’t know what she saw in him considering she had children herself!

my own biological father (was raised more my mums husband) has multiple kids with multiple women, 3 youngest with his wife who Tbf he’s been with many years now but it turned her into a insecure psycho for the first few years, with her knowing his past! Tbh I don’t blame her. He messed up lots.