Do you agree with school absence fines?

Egypt was just an example pulled from the air!! In my personal experience (25 years) the majority of parents that take their child out of school for holidays are not doing any cultural learning activities. They’re chilling on the beach, by the pool and using the amusement arcades! Not once has a child or their parent told me of the wonderful learning opportunities they had or the museums or ruins they visited!!

Spain literally has thousands of years of world history, Roman ruins, and rich culture though, it's not just a blank wall by a pool. A family holiday doesn't have to be an expedition to Egypt to be worthwhile.

Most are. They majority of parents who we find take children out of school for holidays aren’t taking them on cultural trips to Egypt or sightseeing in South America they’re off to Spain to sit by the pool or on the beach.
And even if they were doing cultural things better to do it during the school holidays so children get their full education and their holidays!

Not all holidays are spent permanently sat around a pool though are they?

Oh learning absolutely happens outside the classroom but not sure how a holiday by the pool constitutes learning?
You’ll never convince me that term time holidays are necessary!

I think @Dreamyseptember means that a '3 strikes' rule (i.e 3 unexplained absence and the child is unenrolled) punishes children rather than helping them which, ostensibly, is what attendance encouragement via fines was implemented for.

Some parents may be deterred, others would try their luck and then insist the LA comply with their legal duty to provide children with an education, what I hope would be a minority wouldn't give a shit at all and would let their child stay at home/roam the streets. In the meantime, the kids are out of education, which doesn't help them at all.

if a teacher is teaching a particular subject that week and three parents have decided they want to take their child out to go on holidays, when they return the teacher has to then go back and teach those three children a weeks worth of lessons taking the teacher away from teaching the rest of the class what they should be learning the following week. Now imagine if that happened every week. There is not enough staff and resources for this. All schools have had cuts to the budgets. I don’t understand how parents are not getting this.
it’s the holiday companies that should be held responsible for hiking the prices so much during school holidays

And what’s to stop abusive parents doing these things during the half term holidays, Easter break or the 6 week summer holidays? if the schools want to be custodians of children’s safety that should apply 100% of the time, not only when it works around the term timetable.

Give them work to do while they are on holiday as opposed to conducting catch up lessons when they return.

We need to re-envisage the concept of home study beyond the 5 minutes a day of homework at which it currently stands in many state primaries (once reading is stripped out - which should be independently conducted anyway).

Yes, caution should be taken with implementation with regards to teacher workloads, but record hfh fines and zero progress indicates that a new approach is required.

True, logistically it's a nightmare, I was mostly just venting on the travel side because the pricing feels daylight robbery for families! You’re stuck in a catch-22 anyway, where you either feed into the supply and demand by paying peak prices or take them out in term time and get fined.

It is recognised that children attending school regularly have better educational outcomes and are safer overall.

Just because someone says they are taking their kids out on holiday during term time it doesn’t mean they are. The parents could be hiding a domestic violence situation to allow bruises to heal, they could be organising a trip abroad to subject that child to an operation or forced marriage. I grew up in a time where truancy was accepted and the kids would all hang around the town centre causing trouble and getting into petty criminality.

These rules are to try and protect against all of those things, not just to prevent holidays.

Again focusing on the wrong people. A child who is encouraged to go to school, had parents who do value education and have a good overall attendance are not going to fall behind that much because of a week off. We have regularly taken ours out, not every year but a lot of them. The eldest have had exceptional GCSEs, a levels and one has gone onto a prestigious uni where they are achieving high grades. I had the experience of an army child where we would move regularly, having to join classes at different times of the year, time off for the move etc. I have achieved a lot educationally

The main focus needs to be those who miss days regularly, who are consistently late etc. Why are we not having discussions over them? Why aren't their parents elbeing held to the same standards as those who take their children out for a week. Why is the government not doing more to support children with school avoidance issues?

Where teachers get the idea that no learning can possibly happen outside of a classroom not under the direction of a teacher I have no idea, but it's utterly ludicrous.

How do they think the little 4 year olds that turn up at reception learned to talk and walk? Do people never learn another fact after they leave school?

I suppose I do feel that the fines still disincentivise some people from taking term time holidays - and so if there were no fines, there’d probably be even more children missing school.
There is evidence that attendance impacts attainment - which is why the government pressurises schools on attendance in the first place.
I think the schools should get the money from the fines though- and I’m not sure they do…..
I also think that unauthorised absences shoud be considered as part of secondary school allocations if a school is over subscribed. That would be a disincentive in some areas for sure…….
Lots of children don’t have holidays abroad - so that is not a justification. If all they’re going to do ‘abroad’ is jump in and out of a pool and eat beige food at an AI buffet, then it’s hardly a cultural or educational experience that warrants missing school. Sorry - cynical by experience and not just making assumptions.

I’m not exaggerating, I’m basing it off 25 years working in schools!! There is a cumulative effect! 1 weeks holiday here, a week off with chicken pox there, a few days off with cold.
But we’ll agree to disagree as you’re never going to convince me that a child needs a term time holiday more than that week at school!!

All these things simply do not take place within the space of 5 days. Please do not exaggerate.

No I strongly disagree with the fines. I don’t think the education system should be concerned with parental decisions unless there are genuine safeguarding concerns. For absence I believe the trigger should be much higher, for example less than 75% attendance triggers investigation etc.
I do believe the whole attendance focus is a bit of a scapegoat, our education system is below where it should be compared to other developed countries, results are mediocre, students are the most unhappy in Europe. They are trying to assign the blame somewhere. They’ve chosen attendance. It’s a bit like the NHS trying to blame people who do not attend their appointments for the entire system failing.

Kids failing to grasp a concept once they get back as they’re missed the teaching input for the week before. A lot of units of work link up so if one part is missed another is more difficult. Friendships change very quickly especially at younger ages and a week out while their friends are still at school can cause things to shift. Getting back into routines takes time each time they’re off. Missing friends parties, missing school trips, practices for plays, the list is endless!!

What other disincentives could there be? Teachers jobs are hard enough without having to spend extra time with children who have missed stuff owing to going on holiday.
If there were no fines, attendance would be even lower I fear….

Probably the same teachers moaning as the ones who moan about having to come in on GCSE day or deal with a results query for a child...

Personally I have no issue sorting out some work for a pupil. I plan my lessons in advance so just tell them what the lesson topic is, then email them a work sheet or exam question and ask them to make notes. Takes me a couple of minutes.