Do you agree with school absence fines?

When there were no fines in the 90s, people (at least at my school) were allowed to take time out for holidays. I remember in Year 3 my friend’s parents surprised her with a three week Disney cruise around the Caribbean. The point being that that was a memorable event because it was unusual for someone to go on holiday even though holidays were allowed. It wasn’t like every child was taking a week or more holidays in term time just because they could 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think most still went away during the summer holidays.

Said friend still got top marks in her Sats, as did I, who had two weeks out in early December of Year 6 to go on holiday. Neither of us had any form of catch up work provided.

Whilst I do see where you’re coming from re teachers not being able to provide personalised work for multiple students and I agree that education is important, surely there has to be a workable solution that the majority would be happy with?

Yes, but if we all decided we wanted term-time holidays, think how long it would take to write personal plans (which are actually meaningful for the child and clear to implement) for 30 children. The problem is that holiday-taking-parents never think in these terms. It’s not just about them! What if we all decided to save THOUSANDS of pounds and book holidays in term time. The system would be chaos, even more teachers would feel disillusioned and we’d be communicating that education (and hence work ethic) are unimportant.

This is not fair at all for you. I have heard similar from others with mental health issues - well documented.

holidays - yes, need sanctioning
genuine health / difficult circumstances - obviously leave the poor parents alone

It’s because policy makers can be seen to be doing “something” without putting their hands in their pockets. A child can be put in isolation for a week without appropriate work for a uniform misdemeanour. The main reason attendance has gone down is illness. As for why absence has gone up since covid….covid is an obvious answer. How can it be the same when a percentage of children have been, are being and will be affected longterm by covid infections? Access to healthcare is also more difficult. Staff attendance has also decreased at a similar level to pupils. In opposition, Labour spoke more candidly of the dangers of covid to children and their attendance. They slammed the Tories for not addressing air quality in classrooms asking why HEPA filters hadn’t been installed (about a tenner per child). They do have an impact on attendance.
I wish I’d taken my kids out of school for a week before the holidays so we could have one break from school (not even going away) where we all didn’t go down like dominoes from whatever shitty virus was brought home again. For the first time, some people in one of my DC’s class took their kids out at the end of summer term…they missed nothing. If someone is going to ruin their life’s chances by missing a fete and a movie, it’s a pretty shit system. Until recently, successive governments were happy for most kids to have a week off with chickenpox, finally moving in step years and years after other countries and offering a vaccine. Education is vitally important - however, I REALLY resent the implication that it’s always more important than health and family.

Like take them out. But pay the fine

I DO NOT take term-time holidays.

My eldest had 99% attendance in Y13 (missed a day due to a stomach bug). My youngest had approx 83%. This is due to well-documented health issues. The school has had these documents (from multiple professionals) on file for years.

And yet they issued me with a Section 444 Final Notice to Improve. So I'm living under threat of a fine, doing my level best to make sure my teen is okay, clean up the puke, get new clothes, get the meds down, make sure she leaves on time, oh and doesn't PASS OUT on the way.

If you think fines are working as intended, and only for "people who go on hOliDaYYYY" you are either stupid as shit or having a right fucking laugh.

School tuition is not "free", we all pay through the tax system. If education is not valued then the whole of the population suffers. It is the greatest gift a nation can give to it's children.

Holidays away from home are a luxury and should NEVER be put above education. The punishment for depriving children of an education should be very severe.

Children test in top 0.5% so zero impact on academics here. We took ours out for a week longer at Half Term as the place we wanted to do wasn't workable in a week. Got fined.
My friends kids at private school did the same trip as part of the curriculum. It was a wholly educational trip. Still got fined. Not approved.

Was previously highly active member of the PTA and really pushed for equal financing of all extra curricular (am essentially one of the parents the Govt wants to improve state education rather than go private). Approach taken by the school not approving holiday meant I have stopped donating time and money to the school. Just focussing on my two now.

Everyone with this type of post is missing the point!!!

it’s not about what the child misses. It’s about the disruption to the school. Most (not every) teachers argue this point.

it’s not fair on everyone else.

Obviously this.

I don’t think many teachers would claim that learning is solely attributable to the classroom. This would be ridiculous.

It’s about the disruption to the teacher, class, school, admin etc rather than whether or not the child learns more in a tribal village on the side of a mountain or the classroom.

if we all had term time holidays, the school would be in chaos. Therefore, it’s not fair.

Obviously, if family live aboard and there is a reason that you have to see them in term time, that’s different etc.

I think that if there is a genuine reason for holidays in term time such as a family wedding or parents cannot get the time off work in school holidays then the authorities should be mindful of that and parents shouldn't have to pay a fine unless they persist in taking the children out of school for holidays. I know there are people like my ex-partner who due to his job is allocated certain times of the year for annual leave and maybe once every few years gets the summer or Xmas break off. Most of the time when I was at school my parents took time off during the 6 weeks so we had holidays then and even if I did go on holiday during term time it was when I was in primary school and only for a couple of days as I wanted to be in school once I was at home.

I dont know how I feel about them. Weve just got one. Taken 1 DC out of school for 5 days. First offence in 8 years and we were fined. I cant go into the specifics as it would be outing but there was a valid reason we could not go term time but because no one was dying, school didn't care.

I think what is annoying me about getting the fines is DCs attendance, despite the 5 days off was still above the 94% attendance the school expect. My DC still has much higher attendance than many of his friends who seem to be poorly a lot but I am not talking genuine illness - more coughs and colds. Or even ones that just cba and parents allow them to stay off. Their attendance is in the 80% bracket with no fines.

To me, that feels unfair. I do think something should be done for repeat offenders though, including ones who just skip school etc. There's got to be a line drawn somewhere.

I don’t agree at all - it should definitely be up to the parents, it is too much state intervention. It doesn’t matter where they go or why it needs to be during term time. We did it twice, because we needed more time than the holidays allowed (special, long haul trips), but my opinion doesn’t change based on destination or reason - school is only a part of a well rounded education.

The school are governed by the law, they are not just making stuff up according to how they feel on the day.

During term time the school are mandated to know where all registered children are during school hours, in the holidays they are not. I’ve seen the head mistress get in the car and personally drive to knock on the door of a child who hadn’t been seen for a day and no one had heard from the parents as to why they weren’t in school. Staff take this very seriously.

Of course things could happen during the holidays but if staff have developed a strong bond with the children the children will often talk about what’s been going on whilst not at school and potentially disclose something worrying. That’s why Covid and lockdown was so terrible for keeping kids safe.

Oh that’s interesting. They kept that bit quiet in their comms!

They report but the LA can’t take action.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. My private school wrote last September to say they now had to report absences to the local authority. I’ve got one in private and one in state and the private school is much stricter than the state school. Their view is that the holidays are so long there is zero excuse for absence for holiday. While they state school wishes you well they won’t authorise.

YANBU. I understand why the rules exist, because some children do have a lot of time off and fall behind. But I don’t think a week or two away should be treated the same as persistent poor attendance.
A family holiday is often the only time people get to properly switch off and spend time together. School holiday prices are ridiculous, and some parents have no choice about when they can take annual leave.
I also remember plenty of people going away during term time in the 80s and 90s. A child with good attendance missing a week for a family holiday is unlikely to suffer much, whereas children who miss school regularly for other reasons are a different issue.

I think its sad. I'm in my late 40s and I rember at school after work was done we would get free time. My own older children had golden time on a Friday afternoon. It gave them something to look forward to. My younger children don't get that.

I think music, art.,people Give children a break from the academic stuff. Whilst still learning. I feel like there's no balance. Theres no reward. It feels like children can't be children. Anymore.

Secondary school is awful. Especially from year 10. Obviously I'm only talking from my own children's experience. I just feel going to school should mot lead to mental health, self harm and suicide attempts.

If I was educated enough my children would be home educated.

Regarding holidays I think it should be how it used to be 10 days of a year like it used to be. Children from poorer families don't have enough opportunities as it is . Why take holidays away as well.

There should be some discretion - we asked for 2 days off termtime to attend a family wedding abroad which was brought forward due to grooms mum having terminal cancer and my girls being flower girls and also last chance for DH to see his auntie who he was close to. We were told no. We went anyway. But to me there is a vast difference between this and 2 weeks on the Costa del sol.

I think there should be sanctions for taking children out of school, but imposing hefty fines is not the right appraisal as it disadvantages those on lower incomes. It is rare that my son misses any school (he's about to start Year 10) and in secondary has only missed a few days when he had Covid and 2 half days for family funerals. I know I am lucky, as he is rarely ill, but his school is so intensive that I feel anxious about him missing school - and he doesn't like missing school either. I place a huge amount of importance on his education and wouldn't dream of taking him out of school without a valid reason.

I have no skin in the game because my children go to private school and therefore I won’t be/can’t be fined, but also I don’t take them out anyway.

However, I think the most valid point I’ve read was the one about the bigger picture. There are families where every slight sniffle means a day off, when really it’s because the parents can’t be bothered to get up and out, etc etc. I think there should be a holistic view of the entire picture - the reality is that most pupils won’t attain 100% attendance. If they are good attendees generally, I think some slack should be cut. By the same token, I think there should be financial and court action taken against repeat offenders whose attendance is horrific with no genuine reason (long term health condition etc) regardless of whether they use that time off to go on holiday.

No, because

1. Parents should have more rights over their kids than the state
2. Majority of kids at my DC school see their grandparents or other family
3. The days the kids miss are usually sitting doing nothing or watching a movie. Not very educational. I should fine them for not doing any teaching.

I loathe them. They’re pointless. Rich parents who can already afford abroad holidays, Disney several times a year, skiing…they will just pay it and consider it a “holiday expense”. Normal parents who don’t have the cash to go abroad in the first place will never risk it because they can’t afford it, so it’s off to wales for the summer kids!
The people it’s meant to target: regular truants, kids who leave the school grounds, kids who are off sick every Friday just because: this parents don’t care and don’t pay fines….