AIBU to question rising private school fees amid declining GCSE results

Trafford.
Getting into on of the grammar schools is significantly harder than it was a few years ago. It's got more competitive and more kids are tutored. This has been amplified with Trafford being singled out by Hong Kong property brokers as one of the best places in country to live for affordability, quality of life and education standards. This has brought Chinese style hothoused kids into the frame. There's also been a boom in kids for the years currently going through High School (the birth rate drops off a cliff in a year or two).

The pushy parents who don't get their kids into grammar school because they arent academic enough, send them to private school if they can to avoid the comprehensives which don't have the best reputations.

So the top tier of kids go to grammar schools and the rich but not so top tier kids go to private schools.

The grammar schools in Trafford have extraordinarily low rates of SEN kids.

Conversely there's also a lot of better off parents with kids with SEN who sent them private because of the better staff ratios.

I imagine the pattern is replicated in any area with grammar schools/affluent area.

It therefore shouldn't be a surprise to see this pattern.

In high birth years, you would expect the pass rate to go up, because the admission criteria will be higher for that year group due to additional competition and demand. You would expect the opposite to happen when the crashes birthrate hits high school. Trafford is so expensive, there is a massive drop in pupils, so the standards are likely to slip with more children bussing in from further afield.

Depends on how you look at it

So if state pupils are obtaining similar academic results “for free” and without the advantages private schools can provide it might indicate that those pupils are just better academically, so why shouldn’t they get the same grades, and why shouldn’t their families also be pleased with them?

Surely it’s better for everyone?

If state school’s results are equal or better locally than private it means parents who might consider private, just for academic promise, won’t have to spend on private eitger

Yes, it is harder to get into grammar schools in Greater London too now - most are on the outskirts, but plenty within a commute from mainline stations. The waiting lists are hardly moving either. This is what Labour did with their VAT on private schools, increase the competition for all sought after state schools.
So what next? Are they going to try and destroy grammar schools as well now to bring them down a notch? Would they actually destroy the very schools that provide some academic competition to selective private schools?

@Araminta1004 Well they tried before didn’t they - in the 70s and succeeded to a large extent. Only Bucks and Kent have county wide grammars I think plus a few metropolitan outliers. In Bucks there’s certainly pressure on primary admissions although the grammars have always taken many dc from preps.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner - most of the Greater London ones are superselective with either very large catchment areas or no catchment area. They are also very international in that the student body is largely first and second generation immigrant children. Kent is now Reform currently so not sure what would happen if they messed with their county wide system.

I have a feeling you are the same poster as the OP in the A levels thread. Your replies on this are very similar and repetitive.
I'm out

Wycombe Abbey is one of the most prestigious girls’ boarding schools in the country, with about 30% of the 6-700 students being international. Wycombe High has 1,200-1,300 students, 10% of whom are eligible for free school meals (obviously not as high as many schools, but for a selective school that’s quite high - other Buckinghamshire grammar schools in the area are around 3%).

As for Lancaster and Winchester being similar in terms of ‘geography’… they’re other ends of the country, and there is quite a substantial difference between Lancashire and Hampshire, at least on a UK scale, so I’m not sure what geography you’re thinking of here. Demographics of the local area may well be similar, but you’ll find that as Winchester is another very prestigious boarding school (20%+ international) that’s not particularly relevant.

I have no particular beef with your point - I was educated at a private school and have taught at independent day and boarding schools, as well as state comprehensives and grammar schools, and am confident that you get a lot for your money going private in many cases. The top public schools like Winchester, Eton, etc. are another level again. But let’s not use silly comparisons - compare independent day schools to state grammars if you want to make a sensible point. Here’s one: the Abbey School in Reading (independent all-girls day school, selective top c.40-50%) vs. Kendrick School at the end of the same road (state all-girls grammar, super-selective top c.3-5%) - Abbey = 87% Grades 7-9 (with 40% Grade 9); Kendrick = 90% Grades 7-9. Kendrick much more selective but scarcely beats the Abbey’s grades. In fact, the Abbey tends to have fewer of the really top ability students, because they go to Kendrick for free. (I don’t work at the Abbey - this is not an advert! But it looks like pretty good value for money to me.)

Private schools are not as attractive to work in as they used to be. Recently saw an SLT post advertised at £15k less than the state sector and no TPS. Financial constraints are affecting staffing.

@Boxoffrogs21 Wycombe Abbey is more selective than Wycombe High. Grammars in Bucks do have a much broader intake in terms of parental background and ability. They are not comparable. The type of girl going to WH is quite different from most at WA and local rich people with bright dc will still target WA! Some go on bursaries too.

Comparing schools is also very difficult. Whst subjects are taken? What are eventual destinations? Are dc doing media studies and photography, or Physics and MFLs? School are all different and direct comparisons are difficult. However most private schools will have much better teaching facilities and sports areas for example.

GCSE results are likely to decline overall if private schools are less selective and take children with lower academic ability to maintain numbers.

That does not mean GCSEs for a specific child attending that school will be any lower than they would have been. Just that children who were always likely to gain lower grades are now attending.

Teachers are willing to work for less in private just to get away from state. There's so many teachers willing to work in private they can pay less.

The attitude of a teacher I know is basically that the bright kids go to grammar, the thick kids go to private and the poor kids go to what's left.

All exams have become easier.

Somewhat off topic but absolutely not true. My DC took her GCSEs this year. I took mine in the 1990s and got all As and A*s. Looking at her past papers I couldn't believe how difficult they were compared to mine, not to mention how you couldn't take annotated texts into English exams like I could.

Oh God OP - it's you again!!
Look, you picked a shit school for your 10 yo. Get over it. Not all private schools are the same (much like state schools).
If you don't like it, move him to a state.

I think the stats do speak for themselves (although little is known of the details of those stats...) - kids at a private school are getting more that double the amount of grade 7-9 GCSEs than those at state schools.

Your teacher acquaintance thinks bright kids travel hundreds of miles every day to attend grammar schools in another part of the country where they still exist?

No don't be daft. They are referring to the area they live in.

Yep. Park Ranger or Zoo Keeper.

I very much doubt OP has any direct experience of PS whatsoever. Otherwise she'd not be talking such twaddle.

She sounds unpleasant.

That definitely used to be the case, not now, they’re struggling to recruit too. Why would you go to a school that may be struggling financially, that can’t pay you TPS ?
I work in state and a big indie nearby has recently gone co-ed, staff are jumping ship in droves

If private schools want to attract good staff then they need to up their game with salaries and pensions. It absolutely used to be an attractive option but at the moment it definitely isn’t

All the labour government have succeeded in doing, with their bitter petty politics, is making private education more exclusive.

The wealthier bigger private schools will remain, able to skim over the current waves. And the parents are unaffected, they're wealthy enough. Labour have penalised only the schools who are / were smaller, and the parents who were trying to better their kids educational lives, as the state options are often too terrible (not the teachers).

My kids school is over subscribed and many applicants don't get a place. No signs of a struggle whatsoever. Sorry to disappoint you op :)

A country that accepts the idea that some children can get a better education because they are wealthier is a total failure. It's something to be utterly ashamed of. A functioning, well-organised state should be able to make sure every child has access to great education. It really is bottom of the barrel stuff.

That said, private education in the UK is not solely about grades, it's about buying access and connections for your child, perpetuating class inequality. Questions around grades are a bit silly in a situation where being part of the Old Boys Club is more valuable than any GCSE.

It's not what you know but who you know operates in all areas of life, it's a fact of life I'm afraid.

'A functioning, well-organised state should be able to make sure every child has access to great education'.

Totally agree. Therein lies the rub. This country is so far away from that utopia, it's shocking. If we had that we wouldn't need the option of very few grammar or elite private schools. But here we are. And Labour have only made it much worse.

Did you read the A level thread? The OP who is presumed to be the same person has a kid in private but they’re bitter about the money they’re spending on their kid’s education not guaranteeing top results.