AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

This isn’t about now it’s about his childhood.

Which you can’t change and won’t fix with money.

Would you consider both going to counselling together?

I agree.

My reaction to feeling abandoned by a parent was to become independent and not wanting to rely on anyone else.

The OP needs to stop giving her son money. He clearly still resents her, so why make herself poorer when what ever she gives him now, emotionally and financially, will never be enough in his mind to make up for the years of hurt that he still feels acutely and that is driving his current bad behaviour.

I had an extremely difficult childhood. There does come a point when you are an adult (who has had children of their own)...that you have to do your own working to heal. I think OP sounds like a generous and involved grandparent.

Maybe very clear write that you realise he had a difficult childhood, that you are sorry about that.

My mother did similar to me and it was healing.

Don't be abused about money now though.

I really feel for you, as many young single parents' mothers take on the childcare roles while their children work or attend college or uni for their careers. All credit to you for continuing with your nurse training, getting a job and buying your own house, you should be proud of yourself and your achievements! You did not abandon your son, put him in foster care or a children's home, but he lived in his grandmother's home to accommodate your work shifts and was well supported by you both. He even chose to live with his grandmother later, so it must have been a good experience for him plus it was what he was used to. It doesn't sound to me as though he went without anything he needed, and at 41 shouldn't be expecting your financial support for his own children. In my experience sibling rivalry is normal in most families, my adult children in their 40s are always checking who has been given what, and my friends say the same with their children. However, I just laugh it off and tell them how lucky they are to get anything at all now I am on a pension! Seriously though, it sounds like your son is trying to guilt trip you into parting with more of your money because he has financial problems himself. You are certainly being fair in treating all your grandchildren equally present wise, and particularly generous in helping with the cost of their school uniforms and shoes. But really I think you are making a massive mistake in lending your son such large amounts of money on a regular basis, which he does not pay back in full, as you will disempower him to manage his own money carefully. Your daughter at 26 is managing her own affairs with her partner, through her own achievements and obviously he is envious. But you have supported them both to the best of your abilities at the time so have nothing to feel guilty about.

OP’s son reminds me of the character played by John Sims in the tv series, ‘I, Jack Wright’ who blames everyone else, except himself for his life ( and also borrows money of his parents).

Yes, the son didn’t live with his mum, but he had a fairly stable upbringing with his (youngish) gran, and op was very much present in his life.

Unfortunately, son has got into the unhealthy dynamic of convincing op that if she doesn’t lend him money, then she doesn’t love him. Not true.

Op, stop being financially, emotionally and mentally abused by your son.

OP I guess my perspective is a bit different than most people's. Briefly put, I doubt whether giving in to your son's blackmail ('I'll stop acting resentful if you reduce involvement with my sister's kids') will make any positive difference.

I had the opposite problem to your son's, my mother got very clingy when I became a teenager and didn't want me to grow up. Part of the solution for me was to flee to my godmother's, who I think of as my second mother. So having more than one person in a maternal role isn't necessarily bad.

And children being cared for by several close family members used to be quite normal and still is in some parts. In Swahili, all your mother's sisters are also called your mothers, and your father's brothers your fathers (you add adjectives to distinguish them from the parent-parents). Sorry I digress.

Something clearly has gone wrong between your son and you, but also between your son and your mother (who you say he also shouts at), and perhaps simply 'with your son', tout court?

I'm not sure you have that much to apologise for. It sounds like you did a lot to stay involved with your son, and you worked a lot in order to afford the best for him. At any rate, the pattern of you beating your chest and asking your son how you can atone, and him articulating resentment and making (to my mind, unreasonable) demands seems to have gone on for a long time without resolving anything.,

The resentment would make sense in a man under 30. He's 41, ffs.

I'd advise being very clear that you won't penalise your daughter and her children now for the fact that his childhood was what it was, twenty-odd years ago. Makes no sense.

It sounds like he gets a couple of hundred extra a month from you and your mother. Isn't that special treatment enough? It's worrying that it's so unclear where that money goes.

I think you need to stop trying to atone with either money or time commitment, and ask him what the hell is actually going on - with money, with his resentment, with his apparent active dislike of his sister. Ultimately, the only person that can heal him is he. Not you.

You need to stop making excuses. You were 21 not 15 when you had him. I was 21 and doing a nursing degree when I had my dd. It was hard to say the least but I still raised her. She's 14 now

As someone of 52 who was effectively abandoned by their parents to all of you saying he should get over it, it’s not something you can get over. I have PTSD from trauma inflicted by my parents and as much as I try not to keep blaming them for my shitshow of a life it’s very hard not to sometimes.

@Appleteeth he resents you, and no amount of money will change this. I suspect he sees you as a ‘cash cow’ now as you owe him. But you’ll always owe him in his eyes so he feels he shouldn’t have to fight for the cash he expects from you.

The cash will never rid the resentment. In fact stopping the cash help to both your adult children would maybe a way to help to him see you in a different way.

You can’t buy someone’s love and respect.

No but she was then a shift worker and the child was probably settled
he sounds like he’s just trying to pick arguments and now financially manipulate his mum which is so wrong

He is a 41 year old man with kids of his own. He needs to choose to move on from the hurts of the past or he will never have a happy life. Stop giving him money unless it’s for counselling. If he decides to get counselling, pay for it directly - don’t give him the money.

He should not be using emotional persuasion to obtain money - he is an adult who needs to take responsibility. You support them both a lot.

However this accusation is sort of displace anger at you for not ‘raising’ him and he’s reaching for comparisons and using these instead.

Either way it’s unfair and you need a calmer more focussed conversation than this.

A spot on post

He puts things in monetary terms OP, because this is what you taught him love is. He’s gran raised him while you paid for everything, he got: fancy clothes, fancy toys, fancy holidays- he didn’t need any of that, he needed you to skip some night shifts and spend time with him and give him attention on a daily. So now he equates your love with money but what he wants is the relationship you and DD have. He is also likely chasing lifestyle he can ill afford if he had whatever material things he asked for as a child. To me, it’s all rather tragic, because what he always needed was for you to pick him: over your training, over your work, over your partner (i.e. moved him in with you not with your partner and you; moving your partner out did nothing there really as he knew sooner or later he’ll be back no matter what your DS wanted) and finally over your daughter. And this is what he, on some level, still needs. Hence why he wants you to visit him only when you babysit for her, that’s why he’s “picking” his MIL to babysit over you. The sad part is - I honestly don’t think it will change anything in his life and in your and his relationship. This is what the child in him needs but it won’t make zilch difference to the adult- at some point he needs to come to terms with his childhood and take responsibility for himself as an adult- likely leading to him going NC for some time till he sorts out how he feels about all this (and possibly understands there was no malice in your actions really, just mistakes we all make). It probably would be best for him if you and your mum stop loaning him money - potentially buy shoes for kids or food for the house if they need it, but not give him money whenever he asks. However, if you stop, it will probably mess things up between you even more at least for a time being. It’s a really hard situation - it’s sortable but he’d need to take responsibility and do a tonne of work on himself for his own sake.

When my mother had her first child and first grandchild for her mother, she was in a similar position.

Living at home and needing to work, my grandmother took over looking after her grandchild. My mother said she in effect pushed her aside and over-rode her opnions then her child called her by her first name and the grandmother was Mama.

I think the OP became a victim of an overbearing strong mother and was pushed away, damaging her son in the process.

My mother left and moved abroad and had me and siblings.

I had a different father to siblings here in UK and my father also moved abroad when I was very young.

So I understood the effect on sibling abroad and how they might feel to be abandoned. I do feel it is particularly worse when it is the mother doing it and unfortunately, it did make me judge my own mother more.

My sibling had a great career but was a functioning alcoholic.

My mother and sibling passed away many years ago and father is also gone now. I often think of that situation and the impact it had on my sibling abroad, me and siblings. It has messed us up emotionally in different ways.

So I can sympathise and also judge the OP at the same time.

Does it take 11 years to train as a nurse?!

Op you don’t seem particularly concerned by the fact your high earning, clearly quite damaged son, is having to borrow £500 a month.

That indicates that something very serious is likely going on here. Either drugs or gambling. Does his partner know you’re lending him £500 a month?

He is 46 ! he can go for counselling if he needs / wants.

Does he not work ?
why does he ' borrow ' money each month ?

I know it is a complex situation but paying for school shoes for HIS children is your son's responsibility.

I dont really understand why you moved out of your mothers into a flat... without your son

Its not even like you were a very young teenage mother you were 21 years old!

He sounds like a 41 year old man who tries to emotionally blackmail you when he doesn't get his own way.

Well, quite aside from the issues of his upbringing, I really think she should stop lending him all this money. Frankly, I think you should have stopped years ago but as you can’t turn back the clock, I’d focus on NOW. Stop trying to buy his forgiveness/affection because it’s clear that’s never going to happen.

Time for him to hear some hard truths. That you know you let him down growing up but that you are done with the constant feeling that you’re being made to pay - both in reality and metaphorically- for your undoubtedly shortcomings. That he is in his 40s and it’s time for him to face up to the fact that the past cannot be changed. That you are no longer going to be handing him large amounts of cash. That you would like to have a healthy, adult relationship with him and his family. But that his punishment of you stops now.

I think money has become your love language and you can't undo the hurt of the past. its very sad.

I wouldn't cancel the help you give your daughter. You have offered your son other times and he isn't interested. Letting your daughter down won't solve the problems with your son.

He has complex issues and feelings and they won't easily be solved by giving in to his unreasonable demands.

I'd be tempted to say you can no longer give him money as you can't afford it. If he needs help with a certain item e.g. to fill the fridge you will try to help but do it direct. If he earns 50k and his partner works he shouldn't need to borrow hundreds every month from you and from your mum.

I don't think you should let your guilt about your son's childhood lead to you allowing him to manipulate and financially abuse you.

I agree councilling with your son would be a good idea but probably very expensive unless you can find a charity or something that will help. Does being a nurse allow you to access any help from your employer with therapy?

I wouldn’t stop childcare for your DD as I expect your DS wil turn round and make up an excuse why you can’t visit on a Wednesday either, if he truly wanted to see you, he would be welcoming you at weekends

I would also cut him off, if both him and his partner work and he earns £50k a year he shouldn’t be borrowing £400 a month off you and also off your mum especially if there’s nothing to show for it, I would suspect an addiction of some sorts, so be prepared for backlash. what is your relationship like with his partner, could you speak to her to arrange visits? Although I suspect all he has told her is how rubbish a mum you were