To increasingly feel like men are more of a hindrance than anything else

If there’s so many bad men what are the mums leaning them as they grow I was brought up to respect people no matter what sex I have never raised a hand on a woman or man or child it dont solve nothing men start wars because the women were safe at home looking after the children men are takers of life women give it you are trying to change thousands of years of animal behaviour

Thank you.

That pp said 'very few men' are decent human beings, and percentage-wise, I think she's right – depending on how you define 'decent' of course.

I think around 20% of men in the western world are truly decent – wouldn't use force to assert their will if there were no consequences, wouldn't mistreat (rape/hit/control) women if there were no consequences, don't feel entitled to their partner's body, don't watch porn, wouldnt go to a strip club or use a prostitute, and do pull their weight around the house.

That's a lot of men numbers-wise, but a smaller percent. I base it off statistics around porn viewing, surveys and studies that have asked about men's attitudes towards women, and what they would do if there was no consequence, and so on, and 20% seems roughly right.

I'm lucky enough to have one of that 20% as my DH, and I very much hope my DS will be one of that 20% with what we've taught him (so far, so good), but most men I've encountered in life have not been decent, sadly.

Don’t be so bloody lazy and Google it yourself.

So name those women and the counties which they are head of and the dates of these wars.

This is not a debate. I stand by what I said and do not have to explain who I have in my life lol.

Victim blamer.

Well they do say that when a man and woman live together the man gains additional life years, and the woman’s are reduced.

But then I was getting into my car last week and a woman on the street chased me down to ask her if I could open her drink. Lid jammed shut. I looked at her and then said I doubt I can do any better. Then I remembered, and proclaimed ‘I have a man’. Knocked on the door and presented the lady to DP.

We all went on with our lives happily 🤣

They have already been on - quite a few of them!

Be prepared for the the 'NAMALT' brigade to come on.

I think you are right, I do think in this day and age women have so much more to offer than men in general and for women living with a man is usually just a lot of extra work both mentally and physically. It can be worth it but so very often it isn't.

I am married to a good man but looking back at prior relationships or even just other men I know the odds of finding a good man who isn't a liability in some way is just so low and I see so many women I know with quite frankly shitty men who really contribute nothing except more work and suffering for the woman. So many have issues with addictions, porn use, cheating, abusive behaviours, emotional unavailability, spending excessive amounts of time and money on hobbies that allow them to checkout of family responsibilities.

Then there are the men who do truly heinous things to women sexual abuse, violence, drugging and allowing other men to rape them, even seeking rapists out, or they manipulate and force women into sleeping with other men or otherwise centre their own sexual desires and fetishes over the basic dignity and rights of women.

We know too much these days and it makes it hard to see men in a neutral way as even a guy you know who seems lovely could be abusing his wife in someway or engaging in who knows what behaviours that harm women or children.

Even so many of the men I knew when I was younger who I liked or even went out with revealed themselves over time to be total shits. I truly regret any of the time I spend crying over anything a man or trying to win is approval, total waste of time and energy.

How is my response victim blaming?
That poster said there are no decent men, that is completely and utterly untrue.
Do you not have any good men in your life/family?

Sorry that happened to you, truly x
My post was in response to the there being no decent men.
Do you agree with that?

Not in my experience. My dad was an equal partner in the home, as was my ex-husband, and my current partner is in the kitchen baking bread and making stew for when I finish work 🤷‍♀️

I know some wonderful men and some awful women. I love my partner, my father and my brother. But I do understand what you're saying OP.

I work supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence so I see the worst of men on a daily basis but the thing that makes me lose faith in men is the consistent low level misdemeanors of normal, "decent" men.

I think that a huge amount of men are just not good romantic partners to women. They can be great at work, great friends, colleagues or siblings but a lot of the time they just don't step up in the way we need them to as partners/husbands/coparents.

I have a lot of male friends, they're great friends and colleagues but I wouldn't date any of them and I feel sorry for their partners. On a recent night out 4 out of 7 of my male friends said they would dump their partner if she stopped giving blow jobs. 2 of them said they would dump her if she refused anal and 3 of the 7 are open to children but refuse to marry their partner.

I think that over centuries men have been taught to put their own needs first, while women have been taught to put their needs last, after their children, their husband and their family.

I know not all men are like this and I'm definitely not saying all women are saints, but this is what I've experienced personally.

Yes that is the most reasonable response to what I said. I’m bringing my son up to be a decent human being, to see women as equal and not support humans and his dad does about 90% more than most men so he’s not being brought up expecting to be waited on hand and foot because he has a penis. Looking around I don’t think this is the norm though and so many boys and men are being treated like little princes who can do no wrong. I have high expectations of men and boys and that is a good thing, but it isn’t universal.

Women can be cruel without being violent (probably easier to see the harm done by violence).

How many posters on MN have dreadful relationships with their DM/MIL?

Who can remember the mean girls at school?

I’m sure my DH gets fed up with me sometimes, none of us are perfect

@Summerlovingtheraspberries War is always a terrible thing indeed. It usually escalates slowly and action is normally decided upon by a group of people, often male and female. Many more men have saved lives during wartime than have started them.

People are affected by war in different ways; nowadays there are many alive whose own lives have not been affected by it (thankfully). Mine was not, but my parents lives were.

The statement the OP made was 'men are more of a hindrance' and it was that observation that I was considering and what my response was based on.

When I think back on my life and who has behaved terribly to me, it's has for the most part been women. And that includes the kind of physical abuse a teacher would be immediately sacked for nowadays.

The problem is that often posters have a personal problem with the man in their life that they choose to post as a general 'all men are useless'; which is obviously a nonsense statement. It's 'Mumsnet' so there a very few men here to express their frustration at these kinds of ignorant statements, and also to post regularly, demonstrating their admirable qualities.

I think if someone has married a man who is lazy, then of course it's going to make the experience of marriage and having children tougher. I chose to marry someone who was not lazy and we were therefore a strong team when raising our children.

I am 54 now and in a new relationship with a lovely man; who is wonderful but not particularly domesticated! If we were younger and considering having a family, I know that I would need to be prepared for a lot of frustration and work at home.

Men and women are both responsible for the 'evils of this world'; evils that range from pressing the red button to the relentless bullying of a fellow pupil at school.

There are many male dominated vocations in which men regularly save lives. They are most definitely not considered a 'hindrance' there.

My grandad was an awful man in so many way and he controlled/abused all the women in his life in various ways. My sister has had awful boyfriend, after awful boyfriend after awful boyfriend……definitely down to her lack of self esteem and not believing that she deserves better.

There are so many bad men out there with entitled and disgusting attitudes to women. I am horrified by what so many men do to women, but also to each other (violence). The capability that some men have within them to do harm to others is evil and it frightens me. I cannot understand it at all. It’s like they have sub-human desires to scare, hurt, dominate and kill with absolutely no empathy or care. They’re soulless and it’s terrifying really that those kind of men walk amongst us.

Thankfully my husband is amazing and I am so, so glad that he is the role model that our two sons have.

So what happens to the sons these women raise, or will they be aborting any male embryo? How do you bring up sons, tell them they are shit and worthless? Bringing up a son with a good male role model (dad) surely will help provide better men in the future.

An elderly relative thinks that men should be kept for pleasure and breeding only.

Men in general are nice to you if you are doing something for them or they want to fuck you. As soon as you are a perceived threat to them, not doing something for them or they don’t want to fuck you, you become a target, or if you are lucky invisible. Namalt, but most are. Try saying ‘no’ more to men and see what happens if you are under the impression they’re all sunshine and rainbows.

Having and keeping a man was seen as the pinnacle of achievement for a heterosexual woman or girl for a long time but now the spell has broken women worldwide who have a choice not to marry are running for the hills. They are choosing better and are choosing to be alone, and I do not blame them for one second. When you can earn your own money, buy your own property, raise dc on your own without prejudice - why would you saddle yourself with someone who doesn’t want to meet your contribution with the same energy and competence?

A quick Google will reveal that women have started, or have been instrumental in starting, umpteen wars and conflicts. It has always been the case, of course, that male military leaders vastly outnumber female ones, so it stands to reason that men have started the highest proportion of wars.

Probably worse in that they'd be purely tactical and well thought out. The casualties would be expected and decided in advance their sacrifice is for the greater good.

The idea that if women led every nation we’d have world peace is banal and naive. I’ve worked in female led and female dominated teams; some have been great and some have been completely toxic. The male dominated teams I’ve worked in have been the same - some have been fantastic, and others haven’t been. The idea all women are peaceful, collaborative, and not driven by the same competitive desires as men, is, frankly, bollocks.