to think you can't understand climate science and want kids

I listened to a podcast recently where the guy who was involved with the rolling out of Ai was so scared about what it’s going to do to society that he said he only wanted to have one child. His wife was devastated and he relented in the end , but I think it’s the combination of everything that’s frightening me. Climate change. Ai. Pandemic. Mass migration. Famine. It’s like everything leads to Armageddon and yes that makes me feel frightened for my kids.

But what if my child is the one to stabilise the climate?

There’s no way I would have kids today. We have got climate sensitivity wrong and warming is happening much faster than mainstream models predicted. Maybe we’re past tipping points already. The climate science of the last 2 years is really troubling.

I need to live in the moment to be a present mother for my kids, but sometimes when they talk about what things will be like in their great future adult lives, it chills me to the bone. I think your instincts are bang on not to have them.

I’m unconvinced having fewer children is going to limit the population, in the UK anyway, as aren’t we constantly told we’re not having enough children and are an aging population and that’s why we need to accept huge levels of immigration of people, who then tend to have much bigger families? So instead of having two children, who have two children each, you can have zero children and we’ll import two people who will have six children each.

I’m confused which it is tbh. Are we having too many children or we’re not having enough?

I know it’s a lie that we need huge levels of immigration because we’re not having enough children btw. I’m just pointing out that the narratives around birth rates, the environment and immigration are somewhat flexible depending on the political aim at the time.

This. The predictions are all what happens if we literally do nothing, don't improve our tech etc. We've seen the Covid vaccine come out in record time. Humans are amazing when they have a bit of motivation. Not just that but lots of animals thrive in hot weather. The worst hit will be poor countries, but that will mainly be due to poverty.

I also have my doubts about the media. I used to work in academia and everyone is so focused on getting their name out there, what's a bit of exaggeration going to do?

I do my best in this life. I walk everywhere, I recycle, I use cruelty free products, and I eat vegetarian/vegan as much as I can although I do eat meat, but I do my best and what is in my control. I understand very well that the climate is in danger, but I can only do what I can do. I still want kids. I cannot control what billions of others do but I’ve been put on this earth to enjoy my time here. We are guests and the world will go on whether we are here or not.

I have one DS. Sure, I worry about climate breakdown, war etc. However, he’s just about to start his MSc and I wouldn’t be surprised if he went on to a PHD, so I like to think that maybe I’ve given the world someone who can help.

You are being played. Humans are brilliant at adapting to different climates. Stop worrying and go lie with your husband.

It is frightening to think that children being born today are more likely to die from heat related problems than cold related ones

It will go from being a spike in deaths in elderly/vulnerable currently during Jan/frb due to flu, COVID etc to being a peak in summer as well due to heat.

I think the overall life expectancy will stop increasing & either hold or gradually reduce. I think people will live fewer years in good health.

I don't think that means that all children born now will suffer terribly, I think we are just reaching our peak health & life expectancy.

I think the population increase needs to slow down a lot, the pyramid scheme of increasing the population to improve the world's economy will collapse in more ways than climate change.

I think worldwide we will need to suffer for several generations with a smaller working population supporting an ageing population.

There also the huge problem of booming populations in developing countries.

I don't think we need to stop reproducing in this country but I think we need to be aware of what we are doing

I think the biological urge to have children that exists exceptionally strongly in some people is a separate thing to an intellectual understanding of science.

YABU I think a population bust is going to be worse than climate change, at least in the UK. Either way, humans are clever and good at overcoming hardships. I don't think it's worse than what we had before. We now have amazing technology and medicine.

It is only natural for a mother to worry about bringing a child into the world, it's the ultimate leap of faith to do so, to believe that life is worth living. I'm not religious by the way.

YANBU in the sense that my 2 young children are my absolute world, but I am now extremely concerned about their upcoming quality of life after the heatwaves this year. Both became very unwell at school, so I kept them home for several days. I hadn’t foreseen this at all, and I do understand that some may worry greatly about how things will be for future generations. It’s been a wake up call.

Its definitely a concern

People continued to have children throughout history - how much choice did they have? Reliable contraception is a very recent development and still not easily available to many women around the world. Plus, the idea of women having the right to say no to sex, especially from their husbands, is very recent even in the UK (and still not available to many women around the world).

Climate change will not kill absolutely everybody - there will be survivors.

It would be an incredibly sad future if every single one of our children felt they couldn't have children and never experienced the joy of raising a family.

I want my child to experience raising a child with someone if he wants to.
Yes it could be a nightmare journey ahead - but that's life.

Generational not 👆

Not many multi generaitonal, Western Europeans would have had the experience of war, I don't think it's just Mumsnet posters.

If you had any idea how the one child policy actually worked in practice, you would never say China has the right idea.

Unless you're a sociopath

My day job requires me to understand climate science deeply. I have a PhD. I also have children.

I sympathise, a d worry for my own kids' futures as a result of the climate and other things. But humans are resilient and I am not hopeless.
I also remember that for the entirety of human history until a couple of hundred years ago life for the vast majority was unremittingly hard and grim, with no prospect of a better life for the next generation. So I'm glad our ancestors didn't give up on the idea of having kids!

You don’t need a reason to want or not want kids. Just say you don’t want any.

There is no need to start a goody thread saying that those of us who had or want kids are idiots who can’t understand basic science, it’s insulting. Having children isn’t some awful doom you are imposing on them, look at what we inherited ffs, we dealt with it.

We have known about and been taking steps to stop human caused climate change since before I was born over fifty years ago. If I hadn’t been born, then all my activism wouldn’t have happened. The same for my adult children.

I am one of many, not saying I’m like a Greta Thunberg, but that every voice counts if it exists to speak up.

If the people who care about the planet don’t raise children who care about the planet, then all that will be left are the people who don’t give a fuck about pollution, global warming, extinction events, extreme weather and they and their kids will keep on wrecking the planet because they will raise their kids to think the same way they do.

Those of us fighting for Earth should have children to pass the torch on to. The planet isn’t going save itself from humanity, it is a good thing to ensure there is a next generation of people to fight for every living creature on the planet not a bad thing.

As for population growth, the growth rate has been slowing since the 1960s driven by women having reproductive rights. World population growth is mostly driven by more people living past age 65 than by birth rates. The world population is projected to reach zero growth or decline before the end of this century. So long as women have reproductive rights, population isn’t a problem.

I suppose I just wonder, is the world at a point where I wish I hadn't been born? No of course not. Realistically every day we all choose to keep living, we don't have to be here. By not having a child, you're essentially choosing for them that their life wouldn't be worth living, and that just seems so sad :(

YANBU. I had my children 20 and 18 years ago and I feel guilty about bringing them into the world (both for the planet and for the more difficult lives they will have compared to me); I felt more optimistic at the time.

I work within nature/climate so am aware of the incoming risks. My child is now 14 but if I was looking to have kids now on balance I think I still would. I would however consider moving somewhere very temperate, ie Scotland or the north, or indeed out of the UK if that was an option, where extreme heat will be less of an immediate problem than SE England.

You’re not unreasonable and it’s something I grappled with too, but ultimately people talking about climate change want action - although some changes can’t be reversed and the lack of action by governments is depressing, doomerism is not the goal. In deciding to have a child you could say you are choosing to move forward with hope and investing in the future rather than writing it off. I would say any reason is valid to not have children, I completely respect that though.