to think you can't understand climate science and want kids

Anyway, we'll need children to fan us when it gets too hot. And to fetch the firewood when the AMOC collapses.

If they each planted and looked after 1000 trees they could

Isn't the essence of life, doing things for other people. Making invisible choices for children that help them develop, consciously making the decision to put someone before your hardwired tendency as a human to be self centered. I don't think that devotion is altered by climate change but obviously this is post having children. You cannot have doubts at all IMO as the devotion to the above nurturing does not allow it.

People have children in war and literal sieges.

It it happens we will sit round the table and hold hands and go together like in Don’t Look Up. Will have been worth it. Don’t not have children you want! That’s so sad.

If you don't want children don't have them, but don't not have them because the future scares you. Your child could be the next Newton/Tesla/Einstein/Fleming or Lovelace/Earhart/Curie. Your child could be the one to find a cure for cancer or the answer to climate change. Even if your child does not do anything big and notable they will change other people's lives by interacting with them.

Don't think and worry about the bad, look at the beautiful things we have instead, things the next generation will work to preserve and your child could be part of that.

Because you are potentially condemning them to a life of misery, and doing that knowingly.

We are all being educated of how bad the damage we have done to the earth is, and what the future is very likely to hold. It does not look good, even in the best case scenario.

Hence the OP considering the morality of bringing someone that you will love with all your heart into a life where they may suffer terribly.

I have just finished watching 1883, about a group of pioneers crossing the Oregon Trail back in the 19th century. It was based on a lot of factual accounts of the absolutely brutal, hazardous, terrifying journey they undertook to get from one side of America to the next. History books are full of tales of infant death and cannibalism the settlers experienced as they trudged through 10 feet of snow and boiled the same bone over and and over for some kind of nutrients. This is just one example of the utter feats of human endeavour our human ancestors undertook for a better life, while they continued to populate the planet. The urge to create new life is so strong within us.

I absolutely love being around children, but chose not to have my own - and climate change was one reason.

It wasn’t the main reason I made that choice - but as time goes on, it’s become a more significant factor in why I think I made the right choice for me.

Having said all of that, I’m deeply grateful that young people like your son exist.

It's not going to be just me though is it, that's the point I'm making, I don't think we should dismiss climate change concerns as a triviality which is how your point comes across. In fact, it would be a good thing for as many people as possible to understand and empathise with the horror that is linving in a war torn country coupled with the most dreadful impacts of climate change.

I hear you @EvangelicalAboutButteredToast, it’s hard to have hope. 💐

Depends. I think most people have children for themselves. That is, most good parents will want the best for their children but ultimately they will not deprive themselves of having said child on the chance the child may not want to be here. It is always a risk even without climate change. Your child may hate life: they may have health problems, depression or just want to get of the ride.

Oh I think this was the website!

https://www.gapminder.org/facts/

Although it seems a bit temperamental just now

Plenty of kids live in Saudi Arabia. Sure my kids are white so more UV challenged. But we have sunscreen for that. I don’t think us having kids is even a question. When my kids have kids that might be a question but hopefully by then we have our shit sorted out a little more.

Good for you.
You would think most people would still have the self awareness to understand some of the awful things people have lived through and the common sense to understand that the world isn’t currently ending and things have been so much worse for many people throughout history rather than this constant narrow minded catastrophising.

But everyone’s child can’t be the one to do that…

I’m annoyed as I’ve lost the link now but a while ago I was on a website that was basically positive stuff about the world, just tons and tons of statistics of all the ways life is better now than it has ever been. It was quite refreshing.

I take your point, OP. It's also true that the urge to reproduce is fundamental for most; instinct overrides logic much of the time. Everybody bets on their kids being the ones to sail through trouble.

I don't have DC. Been pregnant a lot, but realised I wasn't 'driven' to have them and settled for a more free lifestyle instead. It wasn't a political choice.

I will, though, say I've got quite a lot of faith in humanity's ability to sort things out at the last minute! It might get gnarly for a couple of decades, then shit hits fans and solutions are implemented. Depends how much shit/fan unpleasantness you're prepared to face, I guess. We're lucky to be in the UK not central Africa.

I’m totally with you OP, it makes no sense to me whatsoever that people would be witnessing manmade climate change, and yet still think it’s ok to carry on creating more humans that will cause more damage. I have step kids (but chose not to have my own kids for this reason) and regularly have this debate with DH who initially didn’t want to have kids for this same reason, but was persuaded into it by his ex. I can only think it is cognitive dissonance “I can create more humans because I have an electric car and solar panels and that makes up for it” - same thing that happens when people are able to carry on eating animals despite seeing evidence of tremendous suffering, but convince themselves its ok because the animal had a lovely life skipping about in a field of wild
flowers. I guess humans are just inherently selfish beings and are able to trick our brains into making a version of reality that supports our dubious life choices.

I could be a sociopath. I mean someone has to be right? After all, I do kind of think Thanos had a point and the world was better off after he clicked his fingers..

Might take a sociopath who is prepared to take drastic action to save the human rice from itself.

Infanticide and abortion being illegal wasn’t always the case too.

Oh so just like southern Canada.

If your parents generation are Boomers they knew about it but still had us - Gen X and Millenials.

If you have children then you have to interpret invents differently, you have to refuse to surrender to despair, you have to actively choose how to perceive the world we live in and take action, not just have naive hope.

Same. Most years I’ve been heavily involved in my kids education over the holidays and we do loads of enrichment stuff and reading challenges etc. This year I haven’t bothered. I’m not convinced university will even be worth it in the future. Everything feels pointless.