To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

It’s desserts…?

Every day a school day ✨

Then don’t engage with me 🤷🏻‍♀️

You asked what I would do, and I’ve told you. I don’t imagine that social services would remove him over one incident, and I haven’t claimed that would happen. What I’ve said is that I would have him removed from my home.

She is not his parent, biologically or legally. Whatever responsibility she has towards him is not one equal to the responsibility she has for her own children. When it comes to assessing risk, I do not particularly trust the judgement of an OP who allowed this to escalate in front of her and chooses now to downplay it.

You do have a habit of repeating yourself and not adding anything new.

She will absolutely be legally responsible for him. They don't place kids willy nilly you know. I think your naivety is becoming increasingly apparent with each subsequent post. She's already expressed several times that she doesn't consider him a risk to her DC. Of course parents remove violent children from their home, but after an isolated incident that was provoked between two unrelated children that do not live in the same household? No, no. Like I said before, he will be less of a risk society if he continues to be nutured in his current environment so all this 'reporting' is likely to be a colossal waste of time.

I am not under the impression that they are not already involved, I fully expect them to be. I would contact them if only to inform them of this escalation, as I would not trust OP to. The police, as I repeat, would be required to act upon a reported assault. That isn’t to say that they would criminalize him, but at the very least they would inform the relevant bodies that his ‘anger issues’ have escalated to violence.

Parents can and do have violent biological children removed in order to safeguard the rest of the family. That OP is a ‘step’ parent is highly relevant here though, as she is not responsible for a biologically or legally unrelated child. She is responsible for the safety of her own children, and right now she’s knowingly putting them at risk.

Sounds like there were at least three adults?

I get how you were busy looking after the baby, but if SS is prone to anger issues, another adult should have been supervising him.

The 10-year-old sounds really unkind and annoying. Thing is, babies can be quite annoying (and they can't control their level of annoyingness). A baby is even more fragile than a 10-year-old girl.

I think while he is getting help for his issues, he really needs much closer supervision. It would be awful if he had a moment and really hurt someone in a way that can't be undone.

Oh, and I wouldn't put those kids together again if I didn't need to. They clearly don't get on, and your DSIS doesn't like your SS. Separate holidays going forwards.

@InterIgnis I repeat, social services must already involved. The only thing social services would do is perform a risk assessment, offer intervention (in progress) and keep him exactly where he is. He was not violent towards the children living within his home. Police would not add anything further than above. I am also willing to bet that the majority of posters would absolutely not remove a child of their own if the same incident occurred in their homes in between two blood related DC. Yes they would take steps to ensure it never happened again, but put their 15 year old into care? I think highly unlikely. OP has clearly stated that he is safe around her own DC, there's no need for you to opine further on that - that is not the point of the post. The niece and the boy will undoubtedly be separated, and that's fine

I dont think anyone is saying that it is acceptable that a 15 year old hit a 10 year old.

This doesnt mean that the 10 year old should not be told her behaviour was also not ok.

You can still feel it is unacceptable that he hit her while having a conversation with the 10 year old about boundaries not being a brat and stopping when told by to stop.

There was a recent post regarding a 15 year old girl sneaking her boyfriend in and having sex at a sleepover. When the poster said she was almost 16 she was (quite rightly) told that almost’ 16 is not 16 and she was a child. Yet here we have a 15 year old boy being judged as ‘almost an adult’.

He is a CHILD who has spent his life being abused by those who are supposed to love and protect him. He has anger issues, but walked away from a situation where he was being goaded by a badly behaved ( not just annoying) 10 year old who even then pursued him until he snapped. Now he is a ‘violent man’ and this little toe rag doesn’t have to apologise for having instigated the entire situation?

OP I think you could have intervened earlier, and it’s never ok to hit, but I have zero sympathy for your niece. Seeing the way some are defending her behaviour I am not surprised at the amount of young adults who expect to behave as they like without consequences. At work they expect the whole place to revolve around them.

I would take your SS home now, for his sake, and get him the professional help and support he badly needs. How awful for your sister to say an abused child should go into care.

Leave your sister to raise her bullying brat. She will be put back in her box soon enough when she tries it at school, and wonders why can’t keep friends.

I hope everything works out for you all 🩵

Huh? I haven't predicted anyone's trajectory?

Name calling, being annoying is virtually the job description in siblings, between other close relatives...so much so I used to drive my younger sister crazy as a kid / adolescent and say "Anya isn't here right now if you want to leave a message..beep" when she clamped on and wouldn't give me peace. Used to drive her mad.

My Mum is a high achieving person (career etc..), she often gave my Dad verbal hell...he periodically beat her for it. As a child I thought she annoyed him, was too assertive, demanding (that he help her as an equal partner). As an adult I know there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for violence. It's a red line.

When I was 15 I knew hitting was not ok and I AM a trauma survivor..beaten with dogs leads by my father, leather slippers..as a teen he could make me wet myself with fear as he approached me in rage...I didn't repeat patterns or use any of that as an excuse to hurt others..quite the opposite

Social services need to be made aware of this recent incident. Police would have a legal duty to act on a report of an assault. They may not criminalize him, but they would be required to make a record of it, and notify any relevant bodies (social services, MASH).

My immediate concern would be for those children I was actually responsible for. That he may not be better off in care would not compel me to keep in my home.

What happens when a boy hits a girl at school? In my experience, very little.

I don’t think anyone is expecting her to be maturer than a 15 year old. I wouldn’t accept her behaviour off a 5 year old.

He's a looked after child. Social services will absolutely be involved. He's getting anger management support as OP has said. Police will have no interest in this. Do you think he will become a more well rounded adult and less of a risk to society if he's put in care?

He has his reasons, reasons that are very sad, reasons that left deep scars, however without change he’ll end up in serious trouble, he won’t be able to hold down a job, it was a really bad decision to go on a group holiday, I’m sure you know that now.

You can’t socialise with outsiders while he has an emotional regulation problem.

Look for youth services in your area, if he hangs around with peers of a similar age, it’ll help him mature.

Rightly or wrongly I’ve always told DS that boys don’t hit girls, my father taught my brother the same, restrain if necessary but never hit a girl. Boys are much stronger, even if they’re similar sizes which I doubt if he’s 15 and she is 10.

To report it both to police and social services, at least. Intervention not just for him, but for OP and her DH as well. Not only did OP fail in safeguarding, but she continues to downplay what he did and excuse him.

I personally would not have young children around him, even if that meant removing him from my home.

This is why we have an epidemic of male on female violence.

But isn't like 80% of violence male on male? Also, the root of this boy's trauma is physical violence perpetrated by a woman.

You should read the 'Partner Abuse State of Knowledge' project. It's the most extensive metastudy to date on DV, published by over 100 academics from 20 universities in UK/US/Canada in partnership with DV associations and experts. They read over 10,000 previous studies and closely analysed/extrapolated the data from 1200 peer reviewed studies.

Men caused the most fatalities/serious injuries as you'd expect due to their overwhelming physical strength. Guess which sex had the highest perpetration rates?

People don't like discussing that study on here for some reason. 🤔 It's unsurprising that so many women are happy to hit men when they aren't held accountable for their actions. Maybe this will be what the niece progresses to as she clearly isn't being taught to respect boundaries.

Yes but she could have fallen and hit her head, also who will he hit/punch next op? One of her younger children?
The fact is hes violent and rapidly becoming a young man and the op needs to explain to him quite how serious his behaviour was and what the consequences of him lashing out at a younger smaller female before he really hurts or kill a girl/woman or younger child

We dont know that she did it on purpose even op says it was an accident (though she does imply it was intentional).
She was being a nasty little brat by the sounds of it but op should have got up and delt with her. However that doesn't excuse a 15 year old boy hitting a 10 year old girl.
With op minimising her stepson behaviour and trying to put all the blame on her niece I'm not so sure that the water being spilled was intentional rather than a careless accident when she snatched the picture.
What we do know is that the op should take atleast half the blame for not physically intervening before it escalated nobody comes out of this well

I agree with this. However, I think the point I was trying to make is that cause and effect is distinct from morality and in situations where it's clear that 'things that shouldn't happen' may well happen the situation needs managed.

There are plenty of rescue pets that will bite if they feel threatened. Should they do so then they can justifiably be put down. However, the better solution is to avoid intentionally antagonising them and work on rehabilitation to see if they can reach a stage where they're no longer a threat to those around them.

What do you consider the appropriate steps to be in order to 'take it seriously'?

I find it very odd how some posters talk about the 15 year old boy like he’s a small child who can’t be expected to control his temper, yet in the same breath say a 10 year old girl deserves to be assaulted by a teenager because she was being a bit mean to him and winding him up.

She’s 10, yet the expectation is clearly for her to be more or at least as mature as a 15 year old boy. Him being 5 years older apparently means nothing and she deserved it because she was mean to him.

This is why we have an epidemic of male on female violence, because male children are infantilised and have excuses made for their poor and aggressive behaviour, while female children are expected to behave as if they much older than they are and take the blame for male violence.

I hope you see this response OP because I’m hoping it makes you feel a bit better.

My DS is 14 years old and adopted. He has suffered significant trauma in his early years and it has a profound effect on children and their development all the way into their adult lives. Often they are emotionally much younger than their chronological age (DS is physically 14 and emotionally about 10…on a good day) and they have massive issues with impulse control. My son has also had a lot of therapy and it sounds like we are at a similar stage to you. He understands that he is feeling angry and he is able to acknowledge that he cannot control himself and therefore has to leave the situation. We are so proud of him as these are massive steps forward and if your SS is the same then I am sure you are proud of him too.

I can completely imagine your upset that SS not only was taunted but will now be feeling ashamed for reacting in a way he knows isn’t right and your sister saying all sorts of rubbish with no acknowledgement of the poor behaviour of your niece. There is a difference between excusing behaviour and understanding the part both sides have played and helping both children understand, learn and move on without shaming or re-traumatising. You are a wonderful step mum for being able to see the nuances, for advocating for your SS and helping him through these tricky moments. I am not excusing his behaviour but the whole circumstances need to be considered including everything he has been through and the long term impact it will be having on him. He is lucky to have you.

and if your sister carries on her over zealous ranting tell her that she can leave the holiday if she is so concerned about the safety of her children. Your SS hasn’t reacted like to anyone else so maybe they should go.

And you're trying to berate a disabled person for attributes directly related to their disability. Shame on you.

See, we can both play this game.

He’s got known anger issues, and recently this escalated to violence against a child years younger than him.

No matter the tragic backstory, taunting does not justify his reaction. It was not a proportionate response, and is hugely concerning when considering the wider context. It isn’t a reason to excuse such a disproportionate response, but rather all the more reason to take it very seriously.

Even if you don’t consider ‘getting angry at’ (whatever that means) an arcade machine to be indicative of ‘violent tendencies’, the fact that he hit a 10 year old very much is.