To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

Should she have been winding him up? No but it definitely doesn’t warrant being smacked by a 15 year old boy.

you keep saying he’s only this tall, so it doesn’t matter, but guess what. From the sound of it, he’s already taller than me.

At 15 he is going to be a lot stronger than a 10 year old, and next time someone might hit him back

It was wrong to hit, no question but imho also wrong of your DN to be relentless with someone who struggles to regulate his anger. Your DSiS comment about not being related is unforgivable. Who wants to feel like a cuckoo.

I'm glad to hear that, I only have DS school to go by (DD is at mainstream but the only person she provokes is her brother ) where provoking someone is a serious offence.

I'm surprised she hasn't been in trouble at primary school or found her peers shutting her out so far for this behaviour.

@PapaSteel Your 10 year old niece was being vile and deliberately winding him up. Fair play to him that he recognised he was angry and walked away, which was the right thing to do. Make sure you praise him for this.

The problem you have here is that your niece then did not follow your instructions to stop, and continued to antagonise him. If she had stopped when asked and let him walk away, then there would be no issue. She deliberately kept pushing his buttons.

I'm not condoning him hitting her. That was wrong and he knows that. But he did actually do the right thing and walk away initially, and she did the wrong thing by continuing to antagonise him, and knew exactly what she was doing.

I have a 15 year old DS and a 10 year old DD, and in the same scenario then my DS (no anger issues) would have probably shoved his sister. And as I parent I would have made him apologise but also told my DD that if she chooses to wind people up then that's what can happen.

Your sister needs to get her daughter to apologise. What she did was horrible.

Great post 👏

You do come across as quite passive op. You could not manage a ten year old. If she was not stopping bothering him you should have gone over taken her arm and physically moved her out of the room.

Are you as passive with parenting your SS. Yes he has had a very traumatic childhood but that can not be used as an excuse for bad behaviour. Don't let him be one of these men who kill someone with a punch because their behaviour was not called out.

Are social services still involved in his care. It sounds like he needs a lot more support than he is getting and quite frankly I think both you and his father need more support and possibly some parenting classes for parenting a child with such needs.

Niece will certainly find out the hard way at secondary school with her peers if she behaves like that. And if the school catch her at it she will be in exclusion or detention.

No I’m not, and it’s a very strange leap to make. Are you ok, or is it a particular hobby of yours to insult strangers online?

I work with traumatised kids and also kids that have attachment issues. Also an adoptive parent so I get the struggle. The blame lies totally with you op. You were the adult responsible. You should have told him to pack up his drawing things and go to his own room as soon as you could see he was aggravated. Or you should have very firmly told niece to leave him alone at the beginning.
It's totally unacceptable he has hit a child.
If you aren't capable of being the responsible adult you shouldn't be letlft alone with kids.
You need to take full responsibility and apologise to everyone whilst also explaining what they should have done differently. Eg your niece shiuld have listened to him. And ss should have continued to move away and not hit.
If I was your sister I would not have ss in the some space as niece any more.

I think she was over-reacting. I'd probably have hit a ten year old girl who'd pulled my drawing book away from me to look, when I had said 'no', and then spilled water on it. Brat, who needs to learn that if someone says 'no' they mean it. She should apologise. (Then he can apologise, obv).

As someone with a DS who has previously been pretty aggressive, had police involvement, but has now calmed down, I can suggest the following:

• Police would not necessarily do anything but if they did, they'd talk to him about alternative strategies for when he's wound up (which he has, and was trying to implement), about respect for smaller children and women and honestly, if they heard what you've said and you also told them about how you are working on his anger, they will probably say "you are doing a good job but it's a work in progress". They might have alternative help available e.g. we had a youth worker come and talk to our DS which was part of what helped him.

• If you had thought of it at the time, a good strategy would be to stand between the DN and the DSS' bedroom door, to prevent her from going in. Our DD winds up our DS and sometimes we do have to physically intervene, even to the point of holding her still (he's now much more likely to avoid her and to avoid people who are winding him up in general, but she's younger and they both have ADHD but she isn't medicated yet and finds it really hard to simmer down when she's wound up herself).

• Among the children at his school, which is a specialist SEMH school, there is a strong culture of "if you provoke someone, that is not right and you will also get a consequence for provoking". DS has taken this on board, and the "just stay out of their way" idea, which are two of his big leaps forward, and it sounds like your DSS has also. Your DN needs a talk about not provoking people.

• The last time DS was actively aggressive with a major effect was over a year ago and an adult shouted directly in his face, he was 13 at the time and he slapped her. We know he shouldn't have done that but the other adult witnesses agreed that the adult shouldn't have shouted either. DS apologised directly and the adult has since gone out of her way to be nice to him, but hasn't directly apologised... I know who I think is the bigger person here! Though in his case it was an adult (and taller than him).

So in summary (and no I did not use Chat GPT) I would suggest either she doesn't stay with you in the future, or you develop better strategies for keeping them apart.

Perhaps if you apologise to the SIL and the DN saying something like "we have learned that DSS can't always stay calm when someone winds him up. He's doing a good job at trying hard and he knows to take himself away from people who wind him up. But I should have kept you away from him better too. You might find yourself in these situations again so you can learn now while you are young not to tease and provoke people and then we'll all be happier".

So, acknowledging that you weren't on the ball, but also pointing out she has some growing up to do.

I see that DSS has already apologised. He will be in situations like these in the future, he already has some strategies, if you see him using them again give him a thumbs up and let him know you've noticed them.

Personally I've never called my DH a prick and he has never called me names either. I don't think that's normal or desirable in a relationship, we never have that kind of personal slanging match argument. He is very mild-mannered but we don't put one another to the test. Everyone has a tipping point for losing it.

OP is falling over herself to excuse his behavior, and paint the niece as a nasty piece of work.. so I doubt her version of events is true to be honest, because if it WAS true, why would OP sit there and let all that happen to him in the first place?

She should have also intervened properly as soon as she tried to grab his notebook, and definitely as soon as he started shouting at her, before things escalated.

OP is either a thoroughly shit parent figure, or she is telling a very one sided embellished story about what actually happened.

And I don’t think you should minimise the continual carping and commentary from your sister. She and her daughter were bullying your SS in a particularly femininely nasty way. He responded in a toxically masculine way.

A mess, but your SS was probably feeling hot at by your sister and niece. I agree with PP that it’s not a very healthy or supportive environment for your SS. Maybe best you all go home.

it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Tell them both off and get on with your holiday.

Does your boyfriend have parental responsibility for the unrelated teen? He absolutely should not be assaulting anyone, nevermind little girls.

Are social services involved? Being discarded by both parents and living with unrelated people is so traumatic it will be hard for the boy for life.

She’s not equally in the wrong. Yes she was annoying. Lots of ten year olds are. But violence is not an appropriate response from a 15 year old boy towards a 10 year old. He can’t go around hitting everyone who winds him up. And you aren’t doing him any favours if you give him the impression that his response was in any way proportionate, and that he deserves an apology for being pushed to violence. He needs to own his own behaviour and his own anger and learn other ways to react in this sort of situation, rather than blaming the situation for his reaction.

Ach this is a really hard one. Your niece was completely out of order. But your SS shouldn’t have hit her.

But I’d be inclined to go easy on him as he was being put under extreme pressure by your niece’s behaviour.

Him hitting her can’t be excused but her behaviour was out of order. He needs to learn that as he grows to become a man, one of his responsibilities will be NOT to hit out even under extreme provocation. Can you and your DP talk him through this?

And your sister is raising a very bratty girl. I’d be furious.

@PapaSteel I am glad that you say he is getting help with his anger. I do think you are minimising the potential for real physical injury here. I stopped letting my sons win playfights with me when they got to 13/14, they genuinely were stronger than me then. I am short but was actively training in a martial art too. A 15 boy will definitely be a lot stronger than a younger girl.

That is not to say that her behaviour wasn’t wrong, she clearly was out to wind him up. She also needs to understand when to shut up and stop. If she was to do similar in another context she may well end being hurt really badly by someone.

It’s one of those situations where both things are true at the same time. He shouldn’t have hit her, at 15 he’s gone through puberty and despite what you’re saying there will be a significant difference in strength.

It’s also true that he was strongly provoked. The niece needs to be clearly told that when someone walks away, she should recognise she’s pushed too far. Following him and calling him names is very wrong. She needs to take responsibility for respecting other people’s boundaries and knowing when to stop.

It's clearly not working if he is physically assaulting a child in frustration.

Your sister is right that he probably needs more external support and monitoring to ensure safety of those around him.

Your sister is talking rubbish in my opinion. I think you also need to take some responsibility. You should’ve removed DN when she wouldn’t do as she was told and leave him alone.
I’d go home. This poor boy is living with people who his Mum told him don’t want anything do with him. Even though you’ve explained that isn’t the case it’ll still be there in the back of his head. Now your DS is treating him like a violent adult instead of a troubled teen.

Just fine thanks. I don’t tolerate any form of violence in my household or from family members. You realise abusive men started off once as boys? I’ve got two boys and I’ve taken my responsibility to raise them as decent non violent non abusive men very seriously. So I have got through 50 odd years of life just fine and continue to do so, thanks.