AIBU to think a £2m homeowner should pay mansion tax?

It's not about what someone originally paid for the house, it's about the value of the asset they hold today. We already tax property based on value through council tax (albeit using outdated valuations), business rates and inheritance tax. A mansion tax simply extends the principle that those with exceptionally valuable property should contribute more.

The comparison with PAYE isn't really relevant. Income tax and wealth taxes serve different purposes. I agree the effective 62% marginal rate around £100k is a poorly designed cliff edge that should be reformed, but that doesn't mean substantial housing wealth should never be taxed. Those are separate issues.
And for people who are genuinely asset-rich but cash-poor, such as someone who's lived in the same home for 60 years, the obvious solution is to allow the tax to be deferred until the property is sold or the estate is settled. That avoids forcing anyone out of their home while still recognising that a multi-million-pound property represents significant wealth.

It's not about what someone originally paid for the house, it's about the value of the asset they hold today. We already tax property based on value through council tax (albeit using outdated valuations), business rates and inheritance tax. A mansion tax simply extends the principle that those with exceptionally valuable property should contribute more.

The comparison with PAYE isn't really relevant. Income tax and wealth taxes serve different purposes. I agree the effective 62% marginal rate around £100k is a poorly designed cliff edge that should be reformed, but that doesn't mean substantial housing wealth should never be taxed. Those are separate issues.
And for people who are genuinely asset-rich but cash-poor, such as someone who's lived in the same home for 60 years, the obvious solution is to allow the tax to be deferred until the property is sold or the estate is settled. That avoids forcing anyone out of their home while still recognising that a multi-million-pound property represents significant wealth.

I was replying to someone asking about the "pensioner"

surely it illustrates why it's unfair.

I have paid tax all my life too, should the government now stop bothering me as well? well, yes, why should you suddenly be given a big tax bill when you ALREADY pay tax?

Why does it need to be taxed more based on its purchase price though? I don’t think that’s something people are in agreement with (as we can see here).

If the local market dictates this is the price of an ordinary house… why do the people in that area need to pay additional tax to live at the same standard as someone anywhere else in Britain?

Lots of people are paying tax at rates of up
to 62% via PAYE - that’s how our tax system works. Over £100k you lose £1of personal allowance for every £2 earned, which creates a 62% rate on this income.

Negative behaviours eg people working part time or using salary sacrifice to avoid cliff edges at £100k

What does his age have to do with it? At what age do you think we should stop implementing policies that might affect people? I have paid tax all my life too, should the government now stop bothering me as well?

Why does it need to be taxed more based on its purchase price though? I don’t think that’s something people are in agreement with (as we can see here).

If the local market dictates this is the price of an ordinary house… why do the people in that area need to pay additional tax to live at the same standard as someone anywhere else in Britain?

Lots of people are paying tax at rates of up
to 62% via PAYE - that’s how our tax system works. Over £100k you lose £1of personal allowance for every £2 earned, which creates a 62% rate on this income.

Negative behaviours eg people working part time or using salary sacrifice to avoid cliff edges at £100k

I'm not saying I would like it - but I would be surprised if I could make a gain from £15,000 to £2m on anything in a tax-paying country and not pay tax on it?

No not an underwhelming mansion. An AVERAGE HOUSE remember?

It may look fairly ordinary but it’s been priced according to the market. Just like everything else. So it needs to be taxed according to its purchase price.

And I love the PAYE nonsense. NOBODY is paying rates via PAYE of up to 62%. You know that phrasing is the way you have is incorrect, you are doing it for effect. Earnings are taxed according to thresholds, as you well know.

What negative behaviours are proportional taxes incentivising?

That’s in Ham, not Richmond.

But a good example of how underwhelming a ‘mansion’ is in outer West London…!

Are those taxes proportionate?

I think a lot of people would disagree.

You can spend £100k stamp duty on a fairly
ordinary looking house in London now. Many people are paying rates via PAYE of up to 62%.

It’s incentivising negative behaviours, and new taxes may do the same. The same group are asked for more again and again.

I dunno, could be this average house- the first on Rightmove

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/91352679

I wasn't talking about the VAT, which we all pay, with income we have already been taxed on anyway.

I was talking about ADDING another "holiday tax", because why not.

The issue is that not only it's grossly unfair and disgusting to add more and more tax out of nowhere to the ones already existing! He HAS paid tax all his life.

A 91 year old pension, suddenly being penalised by the rules change around his home and someone decide to charge him another set of tax? It's outrageous.

To have a garden big enough to host a marquee style wedding in that area, your house would be worth a lot more than £2m…!

But it’s proportional. That poster is going on about PAYE tax. It’s a proportional tax. Stamp duty is a proportional tax. And I personally think council tax should become a proportional tax based on the property value. Just like it was when it was first introduced-it just needs updating. So what’s the problem? Greed.

I wasn't talking about the VAT, which we all pay, with income we have already been taxed on anyway.

I was talking about ADDING another "holiday tax", because why not.

The issue is that not only it's grossly unfair and disgusting to add more and more tax out of nowhere to the ones already existing! He HAS paid tax all his life.

A 91 year old pension, suddenly being penalised by the rules change around his home and someone decide to charge him another set of tax? It's outrageous.

‘When my daughter celebrated her wedding in the back garden of our Richmond house, the apple tree in its centre was small enough to fit inside the marquee…’
Doesn’t sound like a bog standard semi to me!

‘When my daughter celebrated her wedding in the back garden of our Richmond house, the apple tree in its centre was small enough to fit inside the marquee…’
Doesn’t sound like a bog standard semi to me!

You are taxed on holidays. We all are. We are all taxed over and over again, so I don’t understand why it seems like such an issue when it involves pensioners?
Do you get this annoyed by VAT for instance?

‘When my daughter celebrated her wedding in the back garden of our Richmond house, the apple tree in its centre was small enough to fit inside the marquee…’
Doesn’t sound like a bog standard semi to me!

Property ownership especially in places like London needs drastic reform, granted, but he's had money from the start - he and his wife. They were able to buy the house as newlyweds - who the hell can do that these days?! and have been able to afford to make numerous improvements to this house over the years. It's in Richmond, ffs.

He's had a comfortable life living in an expensive area in one of the most expensive cities in the world and he now grudges this pittance of 2.5 k a year.

Tax this rich old man.

The thing is, in Richmond a £2m house is basically a 4/5 bed terraced / semi.

Elsewhere in the UK it would just be considered an utterly normal home.

So my challenge to the mansion tax is - why are we penalising people who live in already expensive parts of the country, because the housing is more expensive there?

This guy bought years ago and has just ended up in this situation - but even for those buying them now… they will already be paying very significant amounts of income tax, stamp duty will have been £100k+ etc to purchase, and no doubt they are servicing a huge mortgage too.

So while I appreciate the argument of taxing wealth, I think this also taxes aspiration for those of us living in London.

Between this, stamp duty and possible LVT (alongside the insane prices and high interest rates) - I’m basically giving up on trying to buy a better house in London. The cost so spectacularly outweighs the benefits / effort required to achieve it - and it seems there will be even more creative ways to penalise this group.

I haven’t made money through property price inflation - I’ve had to earn it, yet I’d be hit with it too.