Transgender niece

That was my conclusion as well. Not that "clothes are gender neutral" but that "the concepts of clothes and gender don't intersect at all", which is a take I'd love to be seen lobbed at TW. Watching the meltdown happening would be hilarious 😂

Of course there's a trans ideology.

You don't agree with someone changing their name?

Surely conversion therapy applies more to people trying to help people change their gender, rather than supporting them to embrace who they actually are? (A biological male or female). That is very different to the concept of conversion therapy as it is applies to trying to convert gay people, because gay people are actually gay!

It’s completely reasonable that you do not have to refer to her as a boy. She may wish to believe that, but you do not. When you are forced to use the wrong pronouns you are also waiving your own right to represent your version of reality and, by default, to advocate for same-sex spaces etc. (That is, you can’t call her a ‘he’ and then say she is not a boy and unable to use male spaces in the same breath. This is perhaps more a safeguarding issue the other way around, but men are still entitled to privacy and dignity).

Gender and sex used to mean the same thing. Gender was a 'nice' term for sex.
They don't any more. That's what makes everything so complicated.

Gender is this nebulous fluid non definable concept that means whatever the person wants it to mean. People can change their 'gender presentation' (whatever that means) but can't actually ever change their physical sex.

'Non binary' people aren't some kind of middle / third sex, transmen are of the female sex (otherwise they would be men). And what about all the myriad of other 'genders'?

@TeenToTwenties In which case all clothes are gender neutral and anyone can wear anything regardless of how comfy it is or how well it fits.

Ding ding ding! You got it.

So as a term it is pretty meaningless. (Which as 'gender' (as opposed to sex) seems to be a nebulous concept at best, is not surprising.)

Gender and sex mean the same thing.

How is sex a nebulous concept? Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina. Even 5 year olds get it.

In which case all clothes are gender neutral and anyone can wear anything regardless of how comfy it is or how well it fits.
So as a term it is pretty meaningless.
(Which as 'gender' (as opposed to sex) seems to be a nebulous concept at best, is not surprising.)

"If clothing was not cut specifically for men or women, then it would be useless because it wouldn't fit anyone. If I wear a shirt that is cut to fit my male body, it's still a gender-neutral item of clothing because women can also wear shirts."

I personally generally find that women's clothing fit my female body better because they are cut to accommodate bust and hips in the way that men's clothing generally isn't.
Often with men's or 'unisex' things that fit in the chest or hips are then too long in the arm or body or just fit 'wrong' because the cut isn't there. Shapeless things like hoodies don't matter so much but most other things do.

@Seethlaw I have to wonder what you look like, that clothes cut for men and clothes cut for women all fit the same on you...

I just explained that different clothes being cut for men and women doesn't mean clothes aren't gender neutral.

That's like saying that clothes are an age-specific item of clothing because a coat for a 30 year old man is much bigger than a coat for a 5 year old. What you are saying makes no sense.

I have to wonder what you look like, that clothes cut for men and clothes cut for women all fit the same on you...

@TeenToTwenties But then what does 'gender neutral' clothing mean? Does it just mean 'doesn't conform to traditional stereotypes wrt colour and pattern'?

Clothing that can be worn by anyone. Anyone can wear trousers, shirts, or sweaters. As I already explained, I have never chosen clothes on the basis of my biological sex. Why would I do that? Why would that ever be a basis for choosing clothes? That's such a strange and bizarre idea. Do you do that? Why would anyone do that?

Band shirts are often called unisex but clearly for men

"Trans women are women", which commandeers the concept of women to the profit of some men.

'Unisex' things are often cut for men/boys. My petite curvy DD couldn't get overalls for college that fitted in any way shape or form.

But then what does 'gender neutral' clothing mean? Does it just mean 'doesn't conform to traditional stereotypes wrt colour and pattern'?

More than likely.

@RudolphTheReindeer Gender neutral clothing wouldn't be cut for a man's or woman's body shape.

Yes it would, because men and women do have different body shapes, and it is incorrect for you to think otherwise. If clothing was not cut specifically for men or women, then it would be useless because it wouldn't fit anyone.

If I wear a shirt that is cut to fit my male body, it's still a gender-neutral item of clothing because women can also wear shirts. I don't wear "male-coded clothing" because there is no such thing. Everything I wear is gender-neutral. I have no idea what "gender-coded" clothing is and the concept of selecting clothes based on my reproductive organs sounds so utterly bizarre.

It's incredibly abusive for adults to make her think she's anything but a girl who wants to present to the world as masculine.

There's a similar situation in my family. It's hard. Like you, I live in another country from my niece, so I don't have to deal with it more than a couple of times a year.

I worry about the future health of my young relative. All those artificial hormones are very bad for human, sexed bodies.

But you’re deadnaming him, referring to the gender they do not identify with - that’s the polar opposite of supporting your transgender nephew. I know it’s a hard one to get used to etc, but starting by using the preferred pronoun is a great start. Suicide, self harm etc is high among the trans community, so it is harder for him than you. Transman/trans boy is - I believe - fine. I fully recommend watching/reading Heartstopper to better understand how teens think more openly now than our generation(s) ever did.

(Edited for kindness - I got my initial response wrong)

@AccidentallyWesAnderson examples?

It doesn’t evolve to the point that up now means down, left means right, blue means red, just because it’s suits you or makes one feel more comfortable.

What’s the saying, you can have your own opinions you can’t have your own facts.

@ScrollingLeaves how have trans people (which you seem to be testing as a single entity rather than individuals) ‘commandeered’ language?

Language evolves. People develop vocabulary to express concepts when the existing language isn’t providing that expression.

This is such a helpful answer in my opinion OP.

In language the meaning of a word is not a matter for personal choice.

What sort of privilege is conferred on a trans person that it is rude for anyone else to not use their ‘preferred’ so called ‘pronoun’ [referring to their acquired gender as in social stereotype associated with one of the sexes rather than their actual sex], but not rude for them to commandeer and change a language for their own narcissistic demand and performance?