The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

It always starts with ' why don't people know what's best for them?' and moves onto 'voting will just get in the way of us achieving our aims- we just need a bit longer' to 'People who exercise wrong think are subhumans who need to be eliminated'.

I think this view is quite widespread. I’ve seen on mn a number of times after Brexit and when right wingers parties do well, posts saying voters should have to pass a test before they are allowed to vote. It’s remarkable how few posters object.
InstantlyBella said that there should be no more secret ballots, eg how people vote would be made public. I realise she was probably taking the pee but there wasn’t that much pushback.

I vaguely remember seeing a tweet Zarah Sultana threw back at JK Rowling the other day. She basically went something along the lines of “why do you have a problem with a brown, socialist, muslim woman”. I thought it was really interesting, she didn’t say why she thought Rowling was wrong, she went straight to a list of identities to paint herself as a victim who has moral authority due to her victims status over Rowling.

In this world view JK Rowling should not challenge her because she’s oppressing someone who is already “oppressed” and that basically makes Rowling a Nazi.

See, I’m a brown woman and I think Sultana’s a bellend, I also don’t like being forced teamed with other brown people for causes that are antithetical to my own values yet this happens around discussions about brown and black people being right wing. People actually try to shame them with their own skin colour.

Any discussion around welfare degenerates into a “why don’t we just eat the poor” hysteria. Theres a lot of “you are doing this because you are just a terrible person”. I hear it most from the left tbh, it’s a lazy way of winning an argument just strawmanning people. Where that doesn’t work people try to use no debate or shut down speakers (saw so much of this happening to GC women). Theres a fragility at the heart of it, it communicates to those of us who don’t mind having someone disagree with us that they have no argument, was it Julie Burchill who coined the phrase “crybully”? Thats what a lot of left wing activism looks like now.

I think it’s an utter pity, ideas get better when they are challenged and tested, it makes the world function better. QT used to be so much better than it is now. Anyone who’s older than 40 can probably remember political debates on TV being authentic, useful and thoughtful, I miss those days.

You think “the left” had it their own way during 14 years of Tory government? Seriously?

Perhaps if working class people were a touch more ruthless in policing the intolerable behaviour of their peers, then it would go a long way towards improving sentiment towards parties that hold their interests more favourably like the Greens.

Yes, that’s true. I think the best way of doing this is if there is any suspicions that family, neighbours and friends may be right wing, then install secret surveillance and recording equipment. This will be quite easy - I mean, look how well East Germany and other Soviet states managed with far less sophisticated technology - and then a group of volunteers can man the listening-in stations.
That way, right wingers can be identified and publicly shamed and punished by losing their jobs, having children removed and so on.

Why don’t I stop speaking to my own mother because she likes Nigel Farage?

We’re talking about different backgrounds. My mother couldn’t read a book about Anglo Saxon Heritage, she gets me to proof-read her important emails. She has functional literacy and that’s about it.

If a member of my family committed a racist crime, then they’d be cut off. While they’re still saying words, that to be clear don’t incite violence, I’m of the view we’re all entitled to an opinion.

Freedom of speech does work both ways.

Why don't you just disassociate with these people? If I had a member of my family who was right wing or talked about reducing immigration or reading books about their 'Anglo Saxon heritage' then I would very thoroughly let them know what I thought about them and then cut them out of my life completely.

We should have zero tolerance for bigotry no matter what class we come from.

You can claim anything online, and have fun doing so, if you are a bored person, in between working hard to help people from Calais of course 😂

Bella is having a lot of fun, especially as so many posters are taking her seriously.

Surely Bella was messing about. Otherwise poor people who have to put up with such a sanctimonious person IRL! Havent the asylum seekers living in tents in Calais suffered enough?

I don’t know what “people like you” means. I don’t know who you are.

They believe it is within their interests. The factory my mum works in has a significant overseas worker population. It’s hard to convince someone that they’re not “coming over here taking your job” when you spend your 12hr shifts listening to people speaking a different language.

FWIW, I acknowledge that it’s actually because of their work ethic, their commitment to employment, their need to work (often no benefits) and their gratitude for the opportunity. But then I don’t work there.

The town centre is derelict, there is a fight for school places every year, people wait months to get a telephone appointment with a doctor.

Their problems are real, their understanding of what is causing them is… limited.

By and large what people like me, who don’t agree with the move to the right in our communities are doing, is repeatedly having conversations with our own families about misinformation and how negatively they will actually be affected. Hoping that one day those conversations land.

I know not everyone from a working class background votes for right wing parties but I have to ask, what exactly are you and people like you doing to stop people from your fellow council estates voting for these charlatans? I'm not pointing fingers, I am just trying to understand what is going on in these communities and why they continously vote against their own interests just to spite people like me.

I know not everyone from a working class background votes for right wing parties but I have to ask, what exactly are you and people like you doing to stop people from your fellow council estates voting for these charlatans? I'm not pointing fingers, I am just trying to understand what is going on in these communities and why they continously vote against their own interests just to spite people like me.

i think Bella needs to grow up - I’m a centre left voter and this is the kind of uncritical thinking often by very young inexperienced in life people that ends up with people voting Reform and making fun of anyone with a social conscience. The fact is neither the public nor the government can solve all the worlds issues , which are multi faceted, single handed. It takes long term strategy, defence capability and a working together approach to even touch the sides of the issues. It is not solved over a bit of a march, flag waving and a cup of tea and a biscuit saying ‘stop doing this you nasty man’ - it also takes an understanding that not all people are poor because they have had no chances in life, plenty are happy to get by making little effort ( and that applies to all kinds of people , including a good number of trust fund kids/trustafarians) not all comfortably off people are well off because they’ve been fleecing everyone else, lots have worked their knackers off for years building up careers and businesses. Life isn’t black and white- that’s why the naivety of many on the far left irritates me - making rich people poorer will not necessarily make poor people richer . It just takes their tax and spending with them if they leave ( however I very much do believe that making sure they aren’t using every trick in the book not to pay is crucial) for the same reason I get really annoyed by the use of the expression working people and I wish Labour and Reform stopped using it.,What does this even mean?? are you not working people then if a teacher or a nurse or a social worker or scientist? Plenty of these jobs aren’t that well paid, especially early career- it kind of implies you aren’t working people unless you get your hands dirty or a shop worker or van driver etc - plenty of trades actually are very well paid, more than the nurse or teacher. have you ever lived abroad Bella? Some of the places you probably feel sorry for are countries where they are more than happy to go around screwing their own population - go to Zurich- the airport is full of African and South American and far east very well dressed despots with their wives with bags and bags of luxury goods. Have a social conscience by all means ( I do) but stop thinking of the world in black and white- it isn’t -

I’m a white working class woman. I grew up in one of the most deprived areas of the country, on a council estate, in real poverty.

Everything I and my family have, has been fought and struggled for.

My mother has worked in the same factory role since she left college nearly 40 years ago. My stepdad works in the same one. My brother and nephew either struggle for work, or work in low paid manual roles.

I have never, and would never, vote Reform. Or anything on the right.

Members of my family do, and whilst I may not agree with any of their political beliefs, they’re still entitled to them.

White working class people are the ones voting for parties like Reform in their droves and they were the catalyst for the Brexit referendum debacle as well. They are ruining a vision of the country that most of us on the progressive left desperately to see come into fruition in our lifetimes. And what exactly do you suggest, listen to them? Give them what they want?

No thanks. I'd sooner tank the economy. I'll be fine.

White working class people are the ones voting for parties like Reform in their droves and they were the catalyst for the Brexit referendum debacle as well. They are ruining a vision of the country that most of us on the progressive left desperately to see come into fruition in our lifetimes. And what exactly do you suggest, listen to them? Give them what they want?

No thanks. I'd sooner tank the economy. I'll be fine.

@InstantlyBella You appear to be racist and classist Bella. See your pp about ignoring white working class people.. How will you avoid your children picking it up from you, never mind a nanny?

'InstantlyBella ·
The voters will naturally switch over to the Green Party, who are more sympathetic to the plight of minorities both here and overseas.
But ultimately, if you claim to be someone of the left, you need to put all Party politics aside and come together to invite as many people to this island as you can before 2028. Get everybody naturalised and start aggressively marketing policies that these people genuinely are concerned about. The white working class can safely be ignored, they are a diminishing demographic and this is their final act of defiance against what is good for them.'

'Yes I do. I think voting history should be available for everyone. That way when I hire a nanny, I can be assured of the fact that I am not going to have someone who teaches my children racist things.'

Yes I do. I think voting history should be available for everyone. That way when I hire a nanny, I can be assured of the fact that I am not going to have someone who teaches my children racist things.

@InstantlyBella When you hire a nanny, eh? Obviously all this work you do helping refugees at Calais and other disadvantaged people must be very well paid as nannies cost a lot these days.
Or are you a trustafarian?