What would you do about immigration?

I imagine they thought the same when the British went to their countries, took what they wanted and made themselves at home. But of course that doesn't matter as it was a long time ago. 🙄

I think the point is that if a person were to be seen visiting the embassy, they might be at risk of harm.

Um, you visit the British Embassy and apply?

Asylum claims to be lodged in country of origin or residency

So you live in a country with an authoritarian government that, for example, executes gay people, and murders members of the opposition. You wish to seek asylum at the British Embassy (or any other country), just how do you expect this to happen, and what do you think might happen to your family and friends if you tried to do so?

1. Asylum claims to be lodged in country of origin or residency with no exceptions. Immediate return of anyone who does not comply with this. Annual cap on the number who can be accepted based on UK's ability to house and support them.
2. The Royal Navy in the Channel returning all small boat migrants to France, Belgium, etc immediately. They don't get to set foot in the UK.
3. No recourse to public funds until citizenship granted. You come here and you have to work and support yourself unless you have been granted asylum on humanitarian grounds and need time to learn the language or find work, but this should be for a limited time only.
4. Immediate deportation of all foreign criminals, excluding those who have been convicted of political crimes for which they have fled their home country. But if they've been convicted of theft, mugging, burglary, rape, or any violent crime then they aren't someone that we want in this country. They should either be immediately removed or once their prison sentence has been served. No exceptions and no 'right to family life'.
5. Central government ID database allowing police and immigration officials to immediately check whether someone is entitled to be here or not. Anyone caught living here illegally is deported with no recourse to legal aid.
6. Legal aid only available to UK citizens and legal permanent residents.
7. English language and citizenship lessons for all migrants.
8. Streamlined immigration route for migrants who come to the UK to fill essential skills gaps.

Thanks. I appreciate your sentiments. I'm more curious as to their viewpoint. People often seem to confidently state that welfare must be cut but not explain why. I'm interested. If you're shouting for less support for disabled children and people with cancer and poverty-stricken pensioners, I think it's reasonable to ask why.

They want welfare cut because they are ill informed and don't realise that most people on welfare work or are genuinely ill/disabled and that there are often very complex reasons why the rest don't work.

They also probably don't realise how close most of us are to losing our jobs and relying on welfare.

They also don't give two shits about anyone vulnerable and prefer a 'look after yourself' social model and don't seem to realise the links between poverty and crime, or poverty and poorer health outcomes. Otherwise they'd know that cutting welfare is an incredibly stupid idea that will negatively affect us all.

Why do you want welfare cut?

Yes we should definitely do away with the human rights convention.

Let's look at what protected rights doing so would under cut shall we?

• right to life
• freedom from torture

• right to liberty
• right to a fair trial
• right not to be punished for something that wasn't against the law at the time
• the right to respect for family and private life
• freedom of thought conscience and religion
• freedom of expression
• freedom of assembly
• right to marry and have a family
• the right not to be discriminated against in respect of these rights
• the right to protection of property
• the right to education
• the right to participate in free election
• the abolition of the death penalty

You cannot undermine one of these without destabilising them all and creating precedent for their removal. So nothing then for the government to uphold fair elections, nothing to stop the government just taking ownership of your house or the banks keeping your money, nothing to protect gay marriage rights, nothing to say you deserve a fair trial if wrongly accused of something...

These things affect and protect every single one of us. So simply saying let's do away with it to stop migration is incredibly short sighted.

That's contributions based which means you've paid enough NI to get it. In that case no but the ones who have never worked in life so get UC version of HSA are different.

Don't allow this situation to happen - i knew an albanian woman who was refused asylum and deported. She returned, was caught, given a year for her case to be heard, and disappeared, as she intended to.

Also we knew a bengladeshi guy, who was granted asylum, and promptly went to the india/bengladeshi border (carefully staying on the indian side) and his family brought over a young woman (a stranger for him to marry) who he bought back here.

The asylum system which is riddled with holes and exploited by lawyers.

We should be doing both.

I think we also need to remember that the UK has had a historical hand to play in creating the instability and hardship that we are now seeing play out. This will get worse as climate change starts to render some areas unlivable and people need to migrate to survive.

If you want to see an end to migration then you need to start looking at more global aid policies that involve long term planning in partnership with local communities rather than the current sticky plaster approach to aid. We also can't be involved in wars and then leave people with the aftermath of that war creating a vacuum for extremism to grow.

The problem with this is its all a big circle , people get concerned about immigration, people get very insular and want to prioritise their own resources, people want to do less to support and empower global neighbours, more people look to migrate, and so on it goes. If you are concerned about migration are you living sustainably, are you purposefully offsetting your carbon footprint, are you actively paying into global empowerment funds, are you voting and pressuring government to prioritise these key issues? If you aren't doing that then you cannot complain when immigration inevitably lands at your door.

Agree. I’ve just googled, job seekers allowance for over 25-year-olds is up to £95.55/week and people only get it for about 6 months.
Why should they spend a big chunk of their week doing community service for just over £3/hour instead of focusing on getting a new job?

Many countries encourage push backs or turn around policies. Many countries will also stand back and watch people down and prosecute any boats in the area that offer aid. I'd say all of that is a breach of human rights law and many legal experts agree.

I would rejoin the EU and cooperate with all EU counties to process and house asylum seekers as a united front. The "small boats" (ugh, that phrase) problem is due to Brexit. I am sympathetic with asylum seekers, so I am not in favour of mistreating them in any way. A better system is clearly needed, however.

I am one hundred percent in favour of free movement within the EU. I wouldn't object to restrictions on benefits if you haven't been in the country for at least X amount of years - that seems sensible to me. However, I doubt this is costing the country as much as Farage would like us all to think. I'd love to hear him cite his sources now and again.

I think EU pensioners should be allowed to settle here with certain caveats on healthcare - that to me seems like net profit as they would be drawing money from abroad to spend over here.

The legal system is also something that needs looking at because at the moment we have lawyers getting rich off enabling men convicted of appalling crimes to stay in this country, with no thought at all - seemingly - to the human rights of their victims.

Many of the grooming gang survivors are retraumatised because their abusers (even those convicted who got piss poor sentences and now out again) are still living close to them. My reading of the evidence available is that the grooming gang survivors have had far far less public money to support them than their abusers. I don't think the majority of the population are in favour of that at all. And still no legal accountability for the public servants who not only failed to do their jobs but helped the rapists. Not even job losses.

The girl who was attacked by the Egyptian illegal immigrant who got £500 and a plane ticket to leave said she felt that he was essentially paid for sexually assaulting her. She said she's had no support and now does not feel safe.

It's totally messed up and the opposite of a system which protects everyone's human rights - it's only protecting the human rights of the select few.

Excellent post.

It's easy for posh rich people who don't live in areas affected to have Utopian dreams but it's not the reality most of us are living. Most of us are getting poorer in real terms (my pay 'rise' is in fact a £100 cut per year in real terms according to the ONS tool) and services are worse. Hence Reform.

Yes being relentlessly positive about all types of immigration is definitely a luxury belief. If politicians lived on my street for a week they would get a dose of reality.

Agree 100%, sounds like where I live. I can't afford to move either. There has been relentless gaslighting by the govt and liberal left media.

Immigration impacts most negatively on those at the bottom of society and that's why it's such a toxic issue. Those are the people most likely to be told they're racist and ignorant and that they need to shut up.

Yes it sounds very similar. We also have the lovely variety of food places but also unfortunately a lot of dodgey barbers to money launder. I also can’t afford to move but once my kids leave I will do all I can to get out of here. Although I worry about how the changes to the area will affect the price of my house. I can’t help but feel bitter as if my government doesn’t care about me. I am trying my best to be a good citizen whilst people around me trash the place the bend the rules to make money that they send home. A lot of the world think we are idiots and wouldn’t put up with it in their own countries. I have not voted for Reform but understand why people are tempted. You feel powerless when you live in a poor area and are negatively affected by immigration. You can’t talk about how you feel and it pushes you to the right.

Hmm not if you are on redundancy notice

What I meant is you’re less likely to need to be seeking paid employment at all when you’re in paid employment, but even if you are job hunting, the fact that you’re in paid employment makes it less urgent to find other paid employment, so you‘re probably applying or needing to apply for fewer jobs.

@MynameisnotJohn I completely agree with you, and with shabana mahmood. I can only hope that if she is forced to water down her reforms, the conservatives and reform hold labour to account about it. The germans are sending back Afghans who don’t qualify for asylum. Other comparable European countries send back a higher proportion of failed asylum seekers from every country - it’s not just about the ECHR but about the abuse of litigation ad infinitem and that needs to stop.

On legal migration, we should simplify the system for high skill/high salary people. On low wage migration, we need to keep the changes that have been introduced regarding students bringing families etc and go further to prevent migration to low quality courses, sort out overstaying, extend ILR and deny access to benefits until citizenship.

overall, we need to have an honest conversation that is not sidetracked by the idea that limiting immigration is racist and we can live in a utopian world. Our economy is not growing significantly despite all the migration that is claimed to be essential to it. We have added over 10 million people very quickly compared to historical norms (go and see what net migration was in the 90s…). Lots of very nice left leaning people claim that the increase in population is only an issue because the government has “failed to invest” in infrastructure but with what? They haven’t had a corresponding rise in GDP. Especially in the last few years - adding half a million people is nearly 1 per cent of the population when the economy isn’t growing even at that, certainly not when adjusted for inflation. If you add more people but have no more resources, guess what happens? People get poorer on average, which is what is happening - per capita, we are getting poorer. People then say “well tax the rich” and redistribute it - which is all very well, but those people will leave, or cut their hours so they earn less, both of which are happening. Immigration should follow growth, it is not, of itself, generally a source of growth save potentially at the level of the entrepreneur/very highly skilled, who we seem to punish with a system aimed at trying to make it difficult for all migrants because we can’t be honest about what we actually need to do to control immigration.

Oh ffs. Didn’t take long

Maybe that's half the issue in UK then