to wonder why some women push childcare onto other women when their own partner will not step up?

I'm not sure why. I remember my dh's cousin telling a story of how he had to take his son to Tesco to have his nappy changed by his mum. His wife had gone shopping with her mil. She too was laughing at the story and was surprised when she asked if dh would have done the same. Not a chance would he have. He isn't an idiot and can take care of his children (dh has been an equal parent from the start). I would have gone apeshit if he had dared. She has had 2 further children with him. Her mum has their children 3 days a week whilst they go to nursery another 2 days. Sickness is covered by her mil. This is an educated women who works as a lawyer.

My own sibling is an educated woman who's dh just doesn't step up. He pats his kid's on the head aimlessly as you might do a neighbours dog. He has never changed a nappy, done a feed or woken with them overnight. He does put his eldest to bed now he is school age and plays with both. My mum is the one who steps in to do everything else. She gets tired and ratty but won't say no to my sister. She does like to be needed and this feeds into that.

Another sister seems to think that in the end it always falls down to the mum anyway and as she likes things done a particular way she believes the bulk of childcare will fall to her. She has no children as of yet. We were raised by the same parents. I have a very different mentality and reality.

My brother is a hands on dad and always has been. His kids are very much wanted and is able to anticipate their needs as well as his wife.

My fil said dh ought not to change dd1s nappy and should pass her to my mil if I wasn't home. He turned around and said that wasn't how we were raising our family, eventually I'd be back to work and he would be doing it anyway and what if my mil wasn't in? He wasn't going to leve her to get nappy rash and more importantly it wasn't mil's responsibility. Mil didn't offer to do nappies it was fil volunteering her. He told his dad she was his child and he was capable of looking after her in any which way she needed. They came around to his way of thinking and commended his parenting but I never got the same praise for essentially doing the same.

I kind of hope lovely pathologist woman who took her 3 children to the hot mud springs at easter and is married to a gorgeous but childish guy is on mumsnet. please tell him to get stuffed.

You can tell im a cynical old Mner cos when i saw Ben Shepherd on This Morning and them talking about his Mens Health cover everybody was wow what an achievement which it is of course, whereas my first thought was Wonder if his wife gets the same amount of leisure time

This happens so much and once you are attuned to it you can literally see it happening in public.

We went on a week's holiday at Easter.

First example-

On the plane, we were sitting DS1, DH, DD2, the aisle, then me. Next to me was a woman with 2 seats, she had her plus an 18m old baby/toddler on her lap and a DD of 5 in the window seat. We had booked our seats to be together so I couldn't move as DD2 needed me nearby. The other woman's husband was in a seat in the row behind. Who travels and doesn't book 3 seats together for their 2 young children and both parents? Or - if it's an accident or no seats spare, what kind of dick sits on his own instead of either taking baby in the single seat or letting mum sit with baby in the single seat while he sits next to DD in the double seat?

He watched two films and had some food. He had a lovely time.

Meanwhile, I was helping his wife reach for snacks for her DD, getting her some water, as the baby obviously went to sleep on her; then her DD went to stretch her legs in the aisle and played with another little boy who was flying with his mum. The mum of the second boy did a great job of amusing them both as they played with some toys, she stopped them both getting raucous and was lovely.

But at the end of the flight - THREE women had stepped in to do this dickhead's job, including his wife. Because we don't sit by and leave a child to struggle.

Second example - on the holiday me and DS did a trip that involved some historical remains then bathing in a hot spring. Really nice. Another family were there - with kids about, DS4 and DD2. Delightful children. From overhearing their chat she was something like a biologist or pathologist and he was a lawyer. Again mum sitting with all 3 of them on the coach, dad had a nap in the single seat. He looked absolutely gorgeous- incredibly well groomed, absolutely ripped, designer clothes, carefully shaved beard, clearly spent HOURS each day in the gym to get like that. While she...was great but looked like a nice, pleasant normal mum of three. Healthy but not like a gym bunny.

I always feel a bit suspicious when it looks like one half of the couple has significantly more free time than the other.

At the hot springs they told us we could put mud on our skin and it would be good for the skin. Lo and behold, mum was on changing the kids, getting them ready, testing the water of the hottest pool as it wasn't really good for very little ones... I offered to just guard the 2 year old for a second while she helped the braver older boy climb into one pool. It was actually all mildly dangerous for them.

Where was dad? Well, as I had mentally predicted when I heard about the mud, he went straight in, got all covered in mud all over his buff ol' muscles, and was wading around in the water. Literally as if he had come there on his own. He was just...there.
Next to the family, but not of it. Obviously with 3 young children there is a constant "mum! look! where is my sock? I'm hungry! Mum!" etc etc. In the 5 hours we were together I didn't see him respond to a single one of those.

Oh yeah there was once he spoke to his 2 year old daughter. She was whinging a bit and he told her to shut up. But didn't actually help her or distract her or do anything with her.

Not all men but some men.... and you can see them everywhere.

Yes, I can't understand that either.
My husband always minded our kids, I wouldn't dream of sending them to somebody else's house and leave him at home watching tv.
I think we would both be too embarrassed to admit a grown man can't mind 3 kids

You train the men!

leave them in charge for a small amount of time and increase it.

it worked for me. Practice breeds competence and confidence.

Obviously, it won’t help if he’s an abusive selfish twat though.

If only that was an option for us women, hey!

Because some women have so little respect for themselves, that they will tolerate incompetence from a parter , rather than making them share the load.
mother martyr!

A woman posted on here today that her husband has just left her and their kids as ‘he can’t cope with the kids’, and the thread is full of people defending the husband and blaming the woman.

I appreciate you said not all men in your post. I was just trying to show an example of that when all the other posts had been of negative experiences - and that I reckon part of the issue is that most men (not all 😄) are not good at multitasking so often prioritise the thing that matters most to them. Which might not be childminding!

The majority of dads I know really aren't like this, but I can think of one. The husband of a school mum friend, she always moans he never helps and they are the type when one child gets a party invitation the whole family turn up, as he can't possibly be left alone with the children or take one to a party by himself. Really annoys me.
Every other dad in my friendship/family circle are perfectly capable, including my own dad who will also have my child for me if needed.

Yanbu!!!

I have a friend who's always asking me to have her DC for this or this. But where the fuck is her husband!? He's usually at work but won't leave early or adjust his schedule for children at all (he has a very flexible kind of job). I'd never dream of doing this unless an emergency or last resort, we always cover our own childcare things between us wherever we can, am I fuck going to do it for other people when there's a perfectly capable other parent there who won't make arrangements for their own child. She would expect me to leave work to look after her child before she would her own husband, who is their father, because I'm a woman.

She'll then say 'oh I suppose I'll have to take them with me then'...or maybe just ask your husband to do it?

And apparently a loneliness epidemic too. When women have education and freedom they do choose better/choose themselves.

However I would say we are not having enough babies to prop up a corrupt Ponzi system that is entirely unsustainable. If women all over the world had full control over who they wanted to procreate with/if anyone the birthrate would be even lower! Perhaps in time though it might course correct as a better crop of future men would be born.

Many women have chosen to avoid procreating with useless men. And now we (society) have a problem because not enough babies are being born.

In my experience, it’s because the women have also accepted the lie that children are womens work, if a man is prepared to “help” look after his own child(ren) he’s impressive, not just standard.

And women who believe this have been taught it by their own parents, men who don’t think they are responsible for their child’s care have been raised that way too, so mothers and MILs are the obvious ones to ask, they’re the reason couples believe this shit.

In my case I had my children very close together so it only became apparent when I got myself together enough to actually be ready to be out and about without them. My marriage never recovered because I resented his lack of engagement so much. He was essentially a very lazy man. I left him of course.

Do single parents not shower? Parents who have a partner working away? It's not quite the same as leaving a child for several hours is it?

Yet they still stay with then, in some cases producing more DC who in turn think it's the done thing and copy the same behaviour.

That's where the vicious circle needs bringing to end.

I initially read this and thought, I don’t know any men like that in my social circle fortunately. And then I started to remember a few examples and realised that maybe it’s more common than you think. I also think a lot of it will be down to how their dad was - I say this because my Dad is a very hands on Grandad, was fairly good when we were kids too, and when I look back my Grandad (his dad) was a real hands on parent and grandparent.

My sister married a man within 2 sons that he barely sees. She has commented recently that when they do come to stay over, he fucks off out for most of the entire weekend without even checking if she minds having his kids (she also has her own child from a previous relationship). Apparently then he complains when the kids don’t want to come and visit…. Can’t think why they don’t want to?! I remember she asked me if I could pick up her daughter to take her to school when I was taking my youngest. I agreed even though it added extra time on, which was extra time I had to work at the end of the day (I don’t think she realised that I was taking time out of work to take mine to school so any detour was a pain). Anyway, I got there - her husband was at home. I asked her why he hadn’t taken her to school, she replied “oh it’s because he’s working”. I told her then I was also working, and it was taking the piss to expect me to take time out of work when he couldn’t or wouldn’t. We had a reciprocal arrangement for after school where we collected both kids from school (I did 3 days a week, she did 2) - every single time I was sitting waiting an extra 10 minutes bare minimum for her daughter to come out, because she would be dawdling, chatting to friends etc. My sister worked part time so her working day was done by 1pm, whereas I was having to make the time back up at the end of the day. Anyway, I digress. So afternoons we alternated - but she wouldn’t ask her husband to drop her daughter to school she’d rather ask me to have to drive out of my way to fetch her and take her. I actually told her I wasn’t doing it any longer. If he was at home, he could take a break to take her in

My husbands an arsehole, and isn’t great with the kids. But I have left the kids with him for me to go out/away with work/run errands etc and never once worried that the kids might end up in A&E, not fed, etc. he was very hands on when they were babies until around 3/4 years old. I found from that age upwards was when he lost interest and patience in them sadly. But it still wouldn’t be expected we find someone else to look after them if he was at home!

I think we have to remember that people don’t come to these boards to talk about how wonderful everything is. So when we see post after post about terrible husbands/fathers, it can seem like it is most men. I like to think it’s a small snapshot and actually the good ones aren’t being spoken about because there’s no need to write a post about it.

I guess if the dad can’t or won’t look after the kids, they still need someone to look after them. Asking another man would probably bring up a bit of shame that the woman’s partner is a useless dad. Plus, unfortunately, we have to be careful about leaving kids with lone men ☹️

He would still take them separately, or she has to accept that there may be accidents and they both get put under a plan. Which would result in him having in writing he doesn't have to have both.

I’ve seen this mentioned before, recently I was at a family party- 3 sets of grandparents, 6 couples and 10 children aged 4 weeks - 11 years old. I watched the dynamics and tbh all the couples were dealing with their children either a child each or taking in turns except 1 couple where the dad did nothing and grandma assisted her dil with the three kids. So 1 out of 6. Whereas i would bet 30 years previous it would have been almost all the females dealing with the kids.