AIBU to think nursery alone is not enough support for poor parenting/ neglect?

What do you think social workers spend their days doing that they have time to track every parent on their case load, know what they’ve attended or not and be able to rebook a parent into a class.

The last time I was in practice, my case load was such that I had a total of 90 minutes per week per child, for everything needed in that case load. So home visits, professionals meetings, child observations, reviewing case notes, my own case recording, report writing, case conferences and court attendance, and prep for all of these. And things have worsened since I left direct practice.

Google is free. Parents have 9 months to prepare and learn about the basics about babies and children. Modern life is complicated if you make it so.

I live in Canada where daycare is very heavily subsidized (i.e. $7 a day) from under aged one.

It's a government run scheme and they have certain targets to meet - the food that they provide, learning levels, motor skill development etc etc.

The vast majority of people from all echelons of society put their kids in this daycare.

Which means that even if the home life is awful, the child is getting fed, learning language, and playing outside, socialising.

It in no way replaces a stimulating home environment, but it's certainly not a bad compromise

Childcare won’t make her a better parent, it will bring other adults who have eyes on the children, give the children opportunities for socialisation and activity and will give mum space if she’s struggling. It’s a first stage intervention in a long list of interventions, each of which need to be tried and shown to be effective or not.

In Scotland the majority of children and family social work teams operate at around 75% capacity, at best. Social workers are leaving the profession within 6 years of qualification such are the pressures and demands. Resourcing (not just funding but training and supervision) are at critical levels, there’s a huge issue with recruitment and retention - more so than in other professions with a much higher profile.

That means there’s hardly capacity for local authorities to meet their statutory protection duties, never mind early intervention - it just doesn’t happen because there’s no one to do it. Social workers have high case loads which are crisis driven. It shouldn’t be that way but no one campaigns for social workers, unless there’s a tragedy at which point folk start baying for blood.

It would be great if social workers could do all the direct work needed with parents, and would save money in more intensive support down the line, but no one wants to pay for it.

A lot of the neglect you describe is lazy parenting such as too much screen time, not brushing teeth or having good food and bedtime routines. Some parents could have all the support in the world and still be neglectful in lots of ways. What would happen when all the support still didn’t improve the parenting, should children be removed from parents for these reasons? It’s a very complex issue and I think free childcare is a good place to start and benefits the child

There are loads of families like this, though. Someone on our street has remarked several times about my own what they presumably think is ostentatiously middle-class parenting, with weekends filled with museum visits, playgrounds, cafes, train and bus trips, soft play etc. I feel a bit sorry for her kids, they’re wonderful when they come over to play but they’re just in the house otherwise.

They should enforce parenting classes upon neglectful parents!
No reason or them not to attend, especially as they are in receipt of free childcare.
If they fail to attend then social work interventions need to begin and those who willfully neglect their children should most certainly have them removed.

Maybe it depends on your area and is a postcode lottery but there is quite a bit of support available where we are, although you do have to willingly engage once signposted obviously.

We have local family hubs which run free play sessions 3 days a week, the same hubs also run classes on parenting for different ages, weaning sessions, sessions on development and how to encourage meeting certain milestones and longer courses on childhood development etc. Health Visitor can refer to these sessions but of course it’s then on the parent to turn up however it’s better than nothing I suppose. There are also people working under the actual HV who attend those struggling and help them with set skills etc, I know a lady who struggles massively with her first baby and someone from the HV team came every other week and supported her a lot which she was very grateful for.

You can’t force someone to be a good parent but I think the way things are set up here at least provides opportunities to learn and do better rather than just sticking a child in childcare for 2 days a week.

Only half joking 😂

I mean the extreme, Orwellian solution is any woman at her booking in appointment has to submit to a compulsory assessment and subsequent classes, courses, monitoring etc which, if failed, results in the removal of the child at birth to be raised in a central, state facility...an orphanage essentially. Unless another relative, the father or grandparents could pass the requisite assessments.

Short of that, its an ongoing patchwork as it currently is. Maybe a few less 'no judgement' comments and returning to a time when people took pride in their and their kids appearance and what others thought would also help. One of the most effective motivators is peer pressure. If its not seen as acceptable to parent this way in some circles, it might be less common. I know Ill get flamed for this but I'm happy to stand by an opinion that notwithstanding learning difficulties (which would precipitate SS anyway) everyone can get out of pj's in the morning, go to charities and free cycle for basics. Get free books from libraries. There may be a tiny number for whom this is genuinely impossible but not the numbers we see in neglectful circumstances.

"It seems like a lot of parents think because their kids are fed and have a roof over their heads their job is done."

This has always been the case.

How many children does she need to take out on public transport? Are any of them SEN because that can really be a nightmare if you add a 2 year old to the mix.

the mum is unwilling to take them out of the house at all unless facilitated by someone else
so she’s lazy and doesn’t prioritise her kids, but of course that’s got to be everyone else’s fault hasn’t it! 🙄

Assuming that’s serious 😂 No.

All children get fertility microchipped, then when they become competant adults are assessed for child-rearing suitability, then chip gets removed.
No?

Parents are the parents. Some people do have crap parents. Yes, as a society, we want to ensure that children are not abused or neglected. But social workers can’t be parents. They can’t, in the end, replace crap parenting. They can’t make up for crap parents. Sometimes friends or family members can help a bit, but the reality is that life isn’t fair and the parents you get is one of those great unfairnesses we can’t prevent.

Children’s centres still exist, and family hubs, but people have to want to go to them and want to engage. That’s the issue really. And even with nursery, if the parent doesn’t bring them then what do you do? It isn’t compulsory, after all.

Children’s Centres and Sure Start Centres.

Parents of vulnerable 2s being able to go (or forcibly enrolled) in stay and plays where they are in a group of 1 practitioner and ~3 parents with similar aged children and similar circumstances to receive education and reassurance about parenting. This used to be what was available for vulnerable under 3s and the SNP have replaced it with just taking the children out of the home for up to 11 hours a day.

I completely agree with OP that it is not the answer and leaves the parent-child relationship in a vicious cycle. The extension of the hours was claimed to be for safeguarding reasons. If their home is so insecure that they need an extra 5 hours of Nursery, why on Earth do they live there?

I would be interested to know what people think the alternatives are

There's lots of local Home-Start charities. These can be really helpful in terms of modelling and helping parents learn skills and build the confidence to get involved in what's available in their community etc.

Agree that early 2s and expanded childcare are in some cases just masking the problem. Far better to empower parents but that takes time and is not as easy to scale using a one-size fits all approach, and gives power to people instead of the state.

In addition to the suggestions made here already, if I had the funds I would also offer all parents-to-be some kind of counselling to help them consider what kind of parents they want to be and the barriers to that. I know that probably sounds quite hippy dippy but I think becoming a parent is such a huge life change and often naturally leads to reflection but sometimes after bad habits have set in; good support early on could help people be much better parents. It's not just about having the skills and knowledge but being in a position to use them. Addressing poverty of course would help too.

I agree that some parents need the basics of parenting spelt out to them. They may just raise their children how they were raised and that may not be the best and so the trauma continues into the next generation. If you’re interested in child development then you’ll seek out the information but those who don’t give it a second thought won’t even think about it until someone tells them directly to their face.

I also think it’s crazy that if you’re child doesn’t go to pre school or nursery they will go from their 2 year review all the way to school at 4/5 years old having not seen a health visitor. The development, or lack of, in that time can be massive and those children that were already falling behind will have a real job of trying to play catch up with their peers