To find middle class parents insufferable?

And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

Doesn't surpise me at all - and I don't think it's anything new either - parents tend to want best for their own kids.

When we moved only one secondary was really good and we couldn't afford house prices that side of city nor could DH easily commute in.

So we went for a decent school that had spent nearly a decade improving itself. It crashed while my DC were there and turned into one of the worst in area of low results anyway - it was nearly entire time of second kid attending it was in special measures.

My kids did okay to really good and left at 16 s- younger two year groups over half failed to get the min needed to access post 16 course - it was a huge drop from when eldest started there.

I've been told on here stuff that happen can't have and I was lying and been told it was my fault for not predicting it depsite it being a shock to everyone how quickly it feel apart - covid didn't help at all.

I would have loved a much more postive experince for my DC at secondary. I went to a great school and hated it and DH went to poor school but at worst think kids school was actually worse if only for lack of teachers in middle child GCSE years - it was unbelievable. If private was even remotly afforable to us I'd have paid. As it was our kids got through as we had some money for resources and our edcuation to push them through and older two are now at good uni doing well.

I spoke to another parent who had family at best school in area - state school but the amount of extras just there -clubs, D of E, orchestra local trips - just on tap they were replicating with outside school agencies but the amount of money and running around to offer her kids what their cousisn just had sat there was insane.

State vs private is a distraction. The huge disparity in state section that hides behind inequlity excuses is just staggering.

@IMustDoMoreExercise your long post - all of this is a central government issue, or should be. The system doesn't reflect just how many problems there are with behaviour in schools now, and how much has changed.

As soon as a child becomes a danger to others they should not be excluded but be moved to a specialist school which has sufficient expertise to help them, protect other kids and the teachers. It is likely that provision should increase for this although it also sounds as though it isn't being used as it should be at the moment

We know why children become violent. And at the point at which they are a risk to others, that should be moment at which they are absolutely required to be moved to schools which can help them properly.

And there needs to be strict rules and criteria applied, and where there is discretion, a central advisory point

A lot should be changed across the board in terms of what children are being taught, a return to a more traditional curriculum but with increased pastoral care - the amount of inappropriate material available to teens at the moment is eye watering.

All this fannying around and articles being written - if only we had a more competent system of leadership.

I didn’t realise how pervasive classism was until I left britian. Yanbu put you posted on a middle class site so you’ll get slaughtered.
i find them so judgemental of everything - screen time, sugar, extra curricular activities, grades. You name it, they one up it.
my mental heath improved exponentially the moment I left it all behind

From experience I don't think it's just MN, I think it's a general English thing, it's just that people are far more blatant about it when they're anonymous.

Doesn’t mean others have to listen and that they cannot support the least desirable schools. They usually have places and need more dc

A few years ago, one of my kids did an activity The sport was set by ability rather than age. My kid was good at it and after a while I noticed was not being moved up. I asked the organisation about it and was told that by leaving my kid in the class, it pushed the rest of the cllass to strive better.

While that is great for the rest of the class, it hindered my child and I ended up having to move my kid into another organisation so my kid could progress.

Why on earth would I leave my kid there for the 'greater good'? I want my kid to be pushed and to achieve their potential. The same for schools. Why would I leave my academic kid in a school in the hope that other kids would follow their lead. That isn't MY kid's objective and no parent in their right mind would say otherwise.

MN is so classist. My god.

My old area of London was “naice” but all the state secondary schools had a knife arch and were 80% black/ Asian. Lots of muggings for phones/ bikes too. I am sure my DS probably would have been ok (their results were not bad) but he’s neurodivergent (ADHD) and pale white hair/ freckles. I thought he’d be a walking target and didn’t want that for him.

You’re right that if all the middle class European kids from his excellent primary had gone there things might have evened out, but I didn’t want my DS to be the canary in the coal mine. So we moved house to the Home Counties (there were other reasons). Other similar families also moved, did the 11+, went private, commuted an hour to religious schools etc.

You can call it selfish/ insufferable if you want, I call it common sense and looking after your own. No one wants to feel like they’re not doing the best for their kids.

So you're saying an inadequate rating, the lowest possible, would have no effect on the reputation of the school? Really? As a former teacher I don't agree with you for one second. I taught in a school that was in special measures. It was a fantastic school - the best I ever taught in - yet people in the local area who didn't have children there told me, to my face, that it was rough and 'filled with a bad element' purely based on its Ofsted rating. They were morons but they reflected the general attitude, which is that a bad Ofsted rating=bad school=rough school.

Incidentally the worst school I ever taught in was rated outstanding. I actually have flashbacks and anxiety dreams about it. It was beyond horrific.

I went to a crap school and I would never recommend that anyone choose to send their kids to one if they can help it.

It also seems far worse at crap schools than even back then.

I wish my parents had sent me to a better school, would've probably needed far less therapy 😂

There’s a happy medium isn’t there? A socially mixed school is fine, a sink school where your kid is going to stick out like a sore thumb for being “posh” because both parents work, or where kids can’t go up the road in their school uniform because it’s the wrong postcode and they risk getting stabbed, is not the same as an outstanding mixed London comp is it?

Social problems associated with private schools are things like both parents workaholic professionals, no supervision or guidance, kids have time and money to abuse on drugs and alcohol so it isn't as though you can send your kids there and just let them get on with it either, ha.

Have you or your kids attended private schools? your relatives, friends or colleagues? do you have any stats to back this expression up?

Both of my DC were privately educated, a lot of families in my social and professional circles educate privately. Your statement is not something I recognise at all. Both parents are very likely to be successful professionals, but yet I see a lot of involvement, supervision, control, homework always done etc. People who send their kids to private schools don't send them there and "just let them get on with it". Most state school parent don't do this either, but numbers of those with "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" is significant enough to cause a lot of pain.

My experience of the areas of London I am thinking of is 10 years ago, but a quick google of social media in the areas tell me that they are as dangerous now as they were then. They are not necessarily "poor" areas though, they are a mix of wealth and poverty. Perhaps your area is avoided because it is "poor" but doesn't have youth gangs and drugs issues - I can think of a couple of areas like that too.
I am now wondering what area you are in...! But you probably can't say.

@Whyarepeople I’m saying this kindly, but that wasn’t going to happen at Ruth Perry’s school. The issue there was a safeguarding infringement and the savvy middle classes near Reading would forgive that! It was in many respects a brilliant school loved by parents.

The op says “challenging comprehensive” not me! I just responded. We all know some schools are not great and parents will always justify not wanting them. It’s human nature. Before ofsted everyone knew what the crap schools were. Parents just know and there’s huge differences in quality and learning. People should learn to say nothing but that’s not human nature. Most people justify wanting better and of course make things up! Doesn’t mean others have to listen and that they cannot support the least desirable schools. They usually have places and need more dc.

Doesn't the fact that a 'deprived' comp exists not make your blood boil? Why does everyone just seem to accept it as a fact of life?

What you hate is snobs, OP.

Having grown up in a working class area/lower middle class area, and lived in middle class and upper middle class areas there are snobs in all walks of life, usually born from some internal inferiority or fear of some kind. In a working class area there can be reverse snobbery.

I was called a snob, swot and show off when I showed any enthusiasm or wanted to do well at school. Then when I moved to a middle class area (only a few miles down the road) some kids took the piss out of my accent and thought I was a bit common. You can't win, so don't worry about it, it's their problem!

Some people also just live in a bubble. Where I live now, it makes me laugh that some people think some areas are "rough" locally but it's actually just where the working class people live and they wouldn't know rough if it bit them on the arse.

Oh and I used to teach in a v deprived comp so I do have experience

Near me 3 teenagers have been murdered through gang violence. I have two boys and don’t think it’s that shocking that I would rather they didn’t attend schools where gang activity is common

I know cause and effect and I am not middle class, but I also know I didn't have the privilege of chancing it.

I have one child who I wasn't prepared to make an experiment of my usual principles, so I fought hard to get her into the best school for her. These schools weren't without issues, but they best suited her and she's done well.

To make up for that, I support community initiatives, volunteered as a reader in another school and helped my neighbours children with their homework.

💯

It is difficult to respond without knowing where you live. I have lived in various areas of London and burbs and in many areas knives, drugs are a real and serious problem, in some classes are streamed but in classes which are not streamed around 80 percent of the class could be not engaging (for many many reasons) and it is extremely difficult to learn in those conditions. Statistically private schools are going to be streets ahead in academics, it really is as simple (and unacceptable in my view) as that. State schools will have changed significantly since you were at school. Right now there seems to be a trend for extreme punishment ie detentions for everything under the sun be it a forgotten pencil or a tie not straight which raises stress levels. Raised stress levels due to noise,

It shouldn't be like this. Academic standards in state schools should be far higher, but are atrocious because of "progressive" idealogy being popular for most of the last 50 odd years. Behaviour management should be informed by research and it isn't, but is more likely to be along those lines in private schools (not always the case obviously).

But I agree with you that comments like "the mothers have a can in one hand and a fag in the other and have 10 kids are appalling, as it is suggesting that most people in deprived areas, or are poor, are bad parents which is rubbish.

I think the concerns expressed about state schools are more about safety, learning, mental wellbeing than to do with social climbing

Social problems associated with private schools are things like both parents workaholic professionals, no supervision or guidance, kids have time and money to abuse on drugs and alcohol so it isn't as though you can send your kids there and just let them get on with it either, ha.

I went to a shit school as a quiet child with glasses, the area my parents live in wasn't deprived but lots of areas around it were. I hated it, I was bullied, I was beaten up. Most lessons disrupted by poor behaviour and fights were regular occurrences. I hated every second and I came out with ok GCSE's but I'm sure if I went elsewhere where teachers could actually teach lessons without constant abuse and bad behaviour (I was in the top sets as well) I might have done better.

I don't want my kids to go to a school like that, in fact we've just moved house and this was one of the main reasons. I don't want my kids to go through that! I know I can't guarantee they won't but I can certainly try by getting them into a good school.

Please Classplain a little more

Where do you think the 'challenging' bit comes from???

From how people speak you'd think it just happens out of nowhere. What actually happens is that a school has a bad ofsted result for some reason, it gets seen as a 'bad school,' parents who have the means to avoid it avoid it, house prices drop in the area, the school struggles to attract teachers, the schools gets worse, and so on and so on.

Headteacher Ruth Perry killed herself because she knew that a bad ofsted report would set the middle class parents off and she'd be ruined.

In society riddled with class snobbery, labelling a place rough is a sure-fire way to destroy it.

I live in an area with shit schools. I am not going to sacrifice my kid's education so we had no option but to send to a private school. I'd rather not but there is no way on earth, my kids are going to be in a classroom where the teacher's main objective is classroom management instead of teaching.