To find middle class parents insufferable?

Oh gosh, this is me! (I'm working class though.)

I spend a lot of time thinking about holidays, researching holidays and talking about holidays! I love talking to people about their holidays and looking at their pictures and videos. Other school parents are the same, so there is an inordinate amount of chat and messages about holidays!

Hi OP, we looked at a handful of some of the best primary schools where we are. We ended up choosing an outstanding state village primary school. It's absolutely amazing and the children and parents are all lovely. I'd love it if all primaries were the same, but I know from friends and family who are teachers that not all primary schools are.

I went to a fantastic primary school in a big city hundreds of years many years ago. It was really diverse with fantastic children and parents and I really enjoyed it. My parents really wanted us to have a good, solid education and I suppose I want the same for my DC, as do the vast majority of parents. Everyone I know with young children has tried to do the best that they can given the circumstances they are in.

(I'm working class, northern and will socialise with anyone!)

I hate to say it, OP, but it seems to me you are just attractive to arseholes who think you are like them 🤣. There are plenty of arseholes of all social classes, and when they think they are on safe ground with someone “like them,” they let it all hang out. That you are not complaining about “working class” arseholes, or “upper class” arseholes just indicates to me you aren’t mixing with them as much as you would like or as much as you think you are, or you aren’t trusted by them. 😏

Where was the state school?

Agreed.

I live in a very aspirational middle class area - we don't really get the schools discussions because the local state schools are very good so there isn't much to complain about. But you do get it about cars, holidays, houses.

And swimming lessons! For as long as I can remember it's been terrible to allow the (very good) swimming teachers at the local council pool (which hasn't been run by the council for about a decade now) to teach your kids to swim and you have to use a private swimming school. My son swam there from 5-18 and survived...

Clearly there are some extremely awful schools out there that it's perfectly reasonable for those parents who have a choice to do their best to avoid. I also think it's perfectly reasonable to pick the best school you can for your child, even if the school you're avoiding is only slightly less good than the one you choose.

What's irritating about some of the conversations is people justifying their decisions to avoid particular schools by being unnecessarily hyperbolic about how awful they are, as if this will somehow stop people thinking they're just snobs.

It's pointless and can come across as insulting. Talking about how you "really had no choice, honestly, St Catchment's School is just too awful" and so on to try to make it seem better actually just makes it worse (partly because of the implicit "it's good enough for your children though").

Really, you've said everything you need to about your opinion of the local school by making the decision not to use it - after that, frankly, the best thing to do is to shut up (or to talk only about the positives of the school you've chosen).

The hyperbole is particularly ridiculous when the comparison is private vs. leafy comprehensive, but I think sometimes people who have decided to pay get a lot of reassurance they made the right choice by hearing stories of the 'bullet' they've dodged, so exaggerated stories about how awful a local comprehensive is are very satisfying to hear and to share. When you actually use the local school and hear ludicrous stories you just don't recognise it's really obvious that there are people doing that.

The issue isn't really people making different choices it's the conversations around those choices that can be cringy (and I don't think class really has anything directly to do with it).

And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

I do actually know a lot of parents like this where I live. Many of their children go to Steiner schools or are home educated. Obviously not all parents are like this, but I do recognise the stereotype.

I come from a sink estate. The schools were terrible, my high school has been shut down. Why would I put my child through that. If I can give them any kind of leg up then I will. Obviously it doesnt bother me that MC parents feel the same way.

YABU to not want the best for your own child. Why are you pointing out their own “unfair advantages”? You’re supposed to be their parent and champion them, not bring them down.

‘some’ might be right, but I am not so sure that OP has provided proof that she is not insufferable.

I think you’re confusing the words “middle-class” and “wanker”

I thankfully don’t often have to do the school run but I find the conversations I overhear utterly insufferable. They seemingly have no life away from their children and live vicariously through them.

What do you expect people to discuss with perfect strangers at school gates? Problems at work? Politics? Philosophical matters of the universe? Dreadful state of the economy? Crystal Pite's choreography?

My kids went to a fairly standard inner city primary. We were happy with that. When they went to secondary we were not that picky either, but it has been a very variable experience. Now it's come to sixth form we are super picky and only want the best for them! In some ways I am glad they have rubbed up against all types of children, those with issues and difficult backgrounds. But I do still get scared for them when they come a bit too close to something kicking off. However, in my more sane moments I realise they are actually well adjusted kids and they are able to handle most things just fine. In any case, most of the harm comes through social media anyway and that seems to be irrespective of which school you go to.

complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic.

They tend to be the users though 😆

I wonder how many of those complaining parents have taken illegal drugs more than once or twice?

If the schools you're referring to are fine @Gwst then whats the problem with these parents choosing to educate their children elsewhere? A good school isnt going to mind and probably has a waiting list anyway. Are you suggesting state controls on where people live and who they mix with?

I get it OP as someone from a very WC impoverished background who climbed the social ladder so to speak and am highly educated. I find lots of the issues MC people worry about petty to say the least. I thankfully don’t often have to do the school run but I find the conversations I overhear utterly insufferable. They seemingly have no life away from their children and live vicariously through them.

How would they stick out?

Before I read your post, I was thinking that this thread illustrates very nicely why people choose to send their children to private school.

You admit you're middle class yourself OP so you too have no idea of the realities of living in and going to school in a truly rough area. If you did you would be taking out a second mortgage to move to a better school if you had to.

It's easy to be accepting of a bit of a rough area/school if you don't have to put up with it and the sorts of people your DC are subjected to.

It can be pretty dangerous round where we live for teenagers, especially boys tbh. While I don't want to get hysterical about it, there are a fair few stabbings and violent attacks on streets near us on a relatively frequent basis (the victims are almost always teenage boys/young men). Don't get me wrong, I like our area, we've lived here for years, lots of happy memories, and yes, as a family with young children most of the social issues don't really affect us. But I'm not looking forward to when my DS is old enough to be out by himself without me knowing where he is. And yes, I'll probably be a bit more worried than if we lived in a "naice" village like the (boring) one I grew up in. It does make you think a bit when there's been a police shootout outside your local corner shop, and no I don't think that's being snobbish.

My own experience of this is slightly different. We moved out of a very rough bit of London when we had DD1. I didn’t feel that safe there so I wasn’t going to stay with a baby in tow and we needed more room so we moved to a middle class commuter town in Herts. So in that I guess I am guilty of ‘white flight’ .However there were two secondaries in this town, the former comprehensive that had once been poor but was improving and by the time dd was 11 was rated outstanding, and the former grammar girls school, also outstanding. All but two of the girls in DD1’s year went to the girls school. The snobbery we encountered for sending her where she expressly wanted to go, the comp, was staggering. Parents who had moved to the area who had no experience of the comp being poor, because by that time it had been improved for years, feeding off historical stories about it and actually asking me why I would send my DD somewhere ‘scummy’.
As time went on it became
very apparent that the inclusive approach of DD’s school was leading to some well rounded kids, and in particular the way they handled bullying and pastoral care was superb. The girls school not so much. Pretty buildings but if your face didn’t fit, it was tough. Lots of those same girls ended up where my DD went and other schools in the area as a result.

I think most people want the best for their children. Most people who can make a choice are not going to choose the school that failed its Ofsted, that has poor academic results, that has a reputation for bullying, drugs or gang culture. Why the fuck would you? I think that anyone who truly believes they’d do differently is either naive, lacking in true experience of what the outcomes can be or deluding themselves. Of course many kids get through these schools and do just fine, many will do very well. All kudos to them. It’s not a chance I’d take if I had a choice.

Well, let's hope they accept your kid/s, eh?

This entire area has some of the lowest per pupil payments in entire UK.

I think London secondaries generally get some of the highest.

Deprived here means slightly more per pupil than otherwise but grades are dire for vast majority and many don't get the min needed for most/better post 16 options.

@Cosimarocks post really resonates with me. Very much my experience, atthough merfcifully my parents saw how much I was being bullied and was bored at my dreadful school and sacrificed huge amounts to send me to an amazing private school for which I'll be forever grateful.

And when I - slightly weirdly, given my experiences - chose to send my dc to a "bad" primary school, because we weren't eligible for any others, all the WC parents in the playground (who did have a can of Coke in one hand and a fag in the other though not 10 kids!) looked at me askance and told me I was mad. They were all busy finding religion/moving/doing whatever it took to keep their kids out of this particular hole.

As it turned out, because it was only primary school, my dc were fine but the school got worse and worse, so I moved them to a private school where they began to thrive in a way they hadn't previously

So I'm glad you had a good experience OP, but it isn't true for everyone and ime the people who tend to share your stance weren't at a truly awful school and don't understand quite how bad some schools can be.