To find middle class parents insufferable?

I don't think you understand how shit many schools are now OP. Even ones with good ratings. Your experience isn't all that relevant.

I do but again, no consideration of the reasons why. Just straight out blaming the ones who want better.

To be honest it’s not my problem. My child is my problem. I won’t be sacrificing their education to make a point, no.

yeah ofsted sucks, I’m very lucky to still live in the same town I grew up in, plus I had my kids young so still relatively up to date with which schools are good and which aren’t.

Whenever I meet a newbie to my town with young kids and they’re talking about sending their kids to the worst school in town because it has a “good” ofsted.

Bless them 😂

Kids being forced to accept a substandard education due to their parent wanting them to fight ‘ghettoisation’ on their behalf. Christ that’s terrible parenting!!!

No but kids from deprived schools are much more likely to be badly behaved because they’re much more likely to have a traumatic home life. Choosing a school you go off a vague ofsted report and judgements. MC catchment = much more likely to have an environment in which my child is able to learn.

So you’re for using your child’s safety to make a point about ending segregation and ghettoisation?

But there is zero evidence that our local secondary schools are like this. I haven't visited them and the parents I'm referring to haven't either as their kids are too young. It's just making an assumption based on your own prejudice that a state school in our area couldn't possibly be good enough for your kid without actually knowing anything about it.

If this is really the case then I think you are even more U to bracket all “middle class”
people with your friends/ acquaintances because, if true, this is just uninformed prejudice. And one thing you can’t usually accuse middle class parents of is failing to do their research.

Before we left London I knew the average A level results, destinations of 6th form leavers, progress scores, proportion of children who spoke English as a second language, admission policies, catchment areas and behavioural ethos of all schools my kids could have got into. I also watched the kids and their behaviour in the local area, on the tube, in the local shops/ take aways. I spoke to teachers at the primary school, parents with other kids at the secondary schools and healthcare professionals about the best fit for my son before we moved. I did visit the schools. The people you’re talking about have probably done similar, they just might not be telling you about it.

😂 could this be any more dramatic? You know what? Deprived kids aren’t necessarily the worst behaved.

im a mum of 4. My children have attended many different schools. The more affluent schools were the ones where stealing and bullying were a bigger problem.

Can you genuinely not see the connection between segregation and ghettoisation? Is this not obvious to people?

Or. They don’t want their kids to go to school with kids who can’t behave and disrupt the shit out of everything.

Always the fault of the “middle classes” (or the people who want better than that for their kids regardless of “class”). No introspection whatsoever as to why people don’t want their kids to be educated in that environment.

@Gwst

You judge them
They judge others

Class has nothing to do with it really

How’d you know what class everyone is? I’m probably middle class but had my eldest at 16 and dress in leggings from primark most days. So everyone looking at me but not speaking to me probably thinks I’m a scruff. Anyway I have no shame in sending my kids to the best school around and am pretty open about describing other schools as shitholes (if it’s true it’s true). If that makes some people find me insufferable than so be it weeds out the pathetic wet wipes I don’t want to be around anyway

Indeed. The order of privilege is

1. those with a great state school, then
2. those that can afford private, then
3. those that are stuck with the local state school option.

The smug MC in an excellent school catchment are the most privileged of all, and yet they feel free to mock those who have to shell out for private in order to save their kids from the dire state option. It’s so hypocritical!

Really? It’s not that extreme in my experience at all. It’s a fairly average school where I’m from. Maybe that’s why I regard the likes of OP as smug and naive. Who on earth would want that for their child if they have any other options?

Caveating that I am from Scotland where violence in schools is soaring and the SNP government have no intention of addressing.

Of course there are, but would someone who had 130 violent offences against them be allowed to stay in a private school?

I’m reminded of something someone said to me years ago, that many people she knew were moving out of the rough inner city now they had kids. She preferred to stay, and help improve the area through community involvement. Are you actively involved in politics, or community activities that help improve the area you live in? Put your (time/effort/money) where your mouth is, or let people be.

This is mg experience too.

I grew up on a council estate (not anywhere super ‘rough’) but my parents did value education and sent me to the schools in the ‘naice’ villages 10 miles away. As a result, I grew up with very middle class friends who all had the expectation that they would would work hard and go to university, so I adopted this attitude too (I had never been around people who had ever been to university before).
All of my parent’s friend’s kids went to the local schools and not a single one went to university. Most had multiple children by their early twenties (often with different partners) and the few that had done well for themselves became plasterers/electricians/machine operators/managers in retail environments etc.

Yes I do want better for my children. I want my children to be surrounded by other children who also have parents who really value education and pass this on to them!
Unfortunately some state schools in certain areas will be full of children who don’t see the value of education (through no fault of their own - they just haven’t had this instilled in them) and as snobby as it may be… I don’t want my children mixing with children like this as I don’t want this attitude to rub off onto them. Schools with this issue will be focused on improving behaviour, minimising disruption, improving attendance, social care etc. But schools without these issues can focus more on education. It’s quite simple really.

I don’t understand why you would subject your children to a more difficult learning environment unless you have no other choice or don’t value education as much?

You do sound like a typical middle class leftie who has no idea of the sort of issues that schools in ‘difficult’ areas face. Nobody is saying that schools in council estates all face drug/knife/gun issues, but I’d bet that the vast vast majority do have issues with disruption, attendance (and having to play catch up), kids with bad attitudes and uncooperative parents. And why not avoid that if you have the means to?

Ireland is far from perfect, in fact I'd argue that it's far easier to be an Irish person in England than an English person in Ireland. Ireland is very 'clan' based - everyone wants to know who your family is and how you're connected to them. Blackrock and Ballsbridge don't reflect the rest of Ireland - there's a reason they're called 'West Brits'!

I think its really disingenuous to suggest Ireland is some sort of salt of the earth utopia thats class blind, at least in dublin go and see what families are up to in Blackrock or ballsbridge, go and eavesdrop on a few conversations in brown Thomas on a Saturday afternoon and you'll find conversations to rival the English chattering classes

Of course the whole stratification thing comes from the fact that there's one family who holds power by dint of birth, everyone has to bow and scrape around them and then there are ranks of hereditary power below that. That sort of nonsense fucks a country's psyche up.

IMO if you move to a high-priced catchment area to get into a 'good' school or you pay privately for education, you have zero right to complain about any social problems going on in your town/county because you are actively contributing to it. There is no point whatsoever in talking about community or a village or progress or anything if you segregate your children and treat people around you like pariahs.

I've worked with people in England who genuinely didn't know anyone below a certain income/wealth bracket. That utterly amazed me - Ireland is too small a country to achieve that level of quarantine and exclusion. In Ireland if you said 'I know cleaners' you'd be looked at like you had two heads - of course you know bloody cleaners, how could you not??? Heck my family includes everything from care workers to a CEO of a large corporation. The idea of knowing only one 'class' or type of people isn't even a thing in Ireland - there is snobbery of course, but the stratification and segregation thing doesn't happen. I don't think people who have never lived anywhere but the UK realise how toxic and rampant it is in England.

But you must realise you’re massively in the minority?? You proved that point by saying you only survived school cos the bully took a liking to you..so for almost everyone else it was a shit experience!

Yep 🙄 they don’t even realise how they sound.

Agree with all of this.