Violent children should be stopped regardless of other factors

Thank you for your considered post - you are right and it is complex

ADHD, ASD, FASD all play a part as does CSE, ACES and family

I work with young people who’s parents never ever thought it would be their child - it’s sad

I agree. I couldn't really care where they are but kids like this shouldn't be in school.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner DOLs orders

I have 7 young people currently on them - for their own protection- none are in secure units with education- there are no places. They are locked down in semi independent accommodation with 5-1 staffing 24/7 at huge expense and unable to access education or training - devil makes work for idle hands

I don’t think violent behaviour or abuse should be tolerated. I do think that children particularly who are violent need to be managed much better. I do think the root cause such as background, ND needs to be supported.

It is not very easy though because I do think you have to consider both aspects and people tend to consider one aspect at the expense of the other aspect and that does not work.

This really. DS is autistic, had violent meltdowns - put me in A&E on more than one occasion.

Changing schools helped - he couldn't cope with the chaos of 30 children in a class -, melatonin and improved sleep helped a lot with his ability to regulate, but the biggest help was a term long weekly group which taught the children how to regulate their emotions, techniques to avoid meltdowns, in a fun, social way.

Punishments didn't work because he couldn't control his reaction enough to avoid the punishment which caused further dysregulation. Incentives didn't work, because the pressure to achieve them caused dysregulation.

The failure of using punishments and incentives meant DS had lost trust in us. School had done a lot of work around ELSA etc., but was also a difficult place for him.

That group, that had nothing to do with us or school was brilliant, it was so beneficial for him that he was one of the very few children who were able to attend twice, he really thrived there, and I wish it could have been longer term really, but understand that would restrict the number of children supported.

According to what law?

If a PRU can't help due to risk, then how is the child safe in mainstream?

did I say that - but equally if ‘you’ view them as a risk to mainstream pupils that risk doesn’t disappear in a different setting

Depends on each individual- I’ve worked with kids who have carried knives because they believed everyone else did so needed protection- some have been PEXed other remained in school with no further issues.

I have kids entrenched in criminal exploitation aged 14 who need help to get out and in prison for attempted murder who will remain there for many years - every circumstance needs evaluation

If a PRU can't help due to risk, then how is the child safe in mainstream?

Teacher that has had PRUs send kids back for being too violent but we can't say no, so have to keep them.

I hope this is the trigger for a harsher punishment system in education, bring back exclusions and start fining parents when their kids misbehave.

Could you point out anywhere in post I have said it didn’t matter? You posed 3 ‘solutions’ I was asking more about how that would work in reality

I recently interacted with the staff team in our local authority who support children with behaviour difficulties. They described all of the children by the number of "aces" they had, and shrugged their shoulders as if to say " What can you do?"

These people had inadequate training for the job they were tasked to do, no power to make any decisions, and so hid behind "trauma-informed practice", which is merely a lovely conversation once a week. I felt for them, being nice was the only card they could play.

Where should someone who takes weapons to school be?

YOI - for what crime?
Sectioned - for meeting what criteria
PRU - how would that help - except to put other pupils at risk?

Honestly if you think SEND young people or care experienced yp don’t get excluded for much lesser behaviour you are wrong.

being out of education is a huge risk factor for kids

We need a much better system for multi agency support and intervention. That requires funding!

@Hamalam My DD is a family law barrister. When she was a baby barrister (very junior!) she did a case where she represented a local authority seeking to deprive a teen of his freedom. I’m probably using the wrong terminology but everyone in court was in agreement that this dc was extremely vulnerable with a long history of being unmanageable. I know the case was reported by the Guardian at the time. However, the big issue then, and no doubt the sane now, is that we have nowhere dc like this can go. All the secure units for dc are full. Always. We clearly need far more robust joined up thinking regarding dc who pose a danger but we don’t have facilities for them. It’s dreadful for everyone but we need greater protection from dc like this. I doubt we will see it. Dc excluded from school for violence should be subject to much greater scrutiny. Ditto school refusers. We also have too many people who have a good idea something is very wrong, but don’t do anything. We need far greater vigilance.

As pp's have said, it's just excuses all the time.

Oh little Timmy can't eat a meal in a restaurant without his iPad on full blast.

If little Timmy isn't able to sit quietly and eat his nuggets without an iPad, maybe he shouldn't be in a restaurant????

You could have stopped the Southport killer AR by not giving his parents asylum. There are many safe countries they could have chosen snd Rawanda is now safe again. Parents should control what their children are watching. All social media should be banned for under 16s. All parents should know what their kids are doing, teenagers especially now are such easy targets. My friends daughter was putting and then trying suicide. When her mother finally invaded her privacy and read her diary it was all there. For years she didnt read it becsuse it was private. If you are concerned there is no such thing as privacy it is your duty to protect your child and others.

We’re so far from this. Even young dc will beat the brunt.

The OP is bang on

Nephew is the same 'oh he's autistic, so punches people in the stomach'

Right

🤔

Again...
This was in relation to the PP who said the figure was 85%.
This report says different.
That's all. No agenda.

They weren’t forced though. So many of my 80s schooled peers skipped school with no repercussions.
Focus on attendance at all costs is far worse now than it ever was.

But whilst making sure everyone involved is safe, you really can’t write off children/yp because they don’t fit the increasingly rigid approach that schools offer.

I’ve seen a huge increase in SEND in schools and of challenging behaviour, but it tends to be that the children cannot cope with the system, then parents are blamed. There are shit parents, twas always thus, but not to the point where up to 40%+ of pupils in a mainstream school have SN (this was the rate in my dc’s school). The world has become a far more difficult place to be - bills skyrocketing, stress abundant, social media changing how people socialise, creating polarisation.

Those in charge need to start looking at what’s going wrong, rather than doubling down on policies and guidelines that just make things worse. At the moment there’s a push to blame parents and children, not long ago it was teachers being blamed. Perhaps it’s all an inevitable reaction to how crap live has become for so many?