Violent children should be stopped regardless of other factors

I am so tired of this. My daughter's head was spilt open by a violent girl in her class, she has been spat at, bitten, dragged by the hair. I exhausted every avenue but this child is always allowed back at school because you know...SEN.
This child causes trouble every single day. They cannot manage her but every single day her parent send her in KNOWING she is going to hurt and terrorise children.

I don't CARE where these children go, they need to be removed from a class where the kids cannot learn or be safe.

If someone is violent where should they be? Around other children?

No more violence in schools.

Signed a mum who doesnt want her child hurt and terrified

Or lock up people who have repeatedly proven to be violent so they dont hurt others or derail their education?

Don't understand the silly thing comment?
Also dont really care for the specifics, if your child is violent they shouldn't be in a mainstream school where they put other people at risk

Dangerous is a convenient label.
Signed, an historian of learning disability.

They're not "different", they're dangerous.

Signed, a woman with autism who is fucking fed up of hearing it being used as an excuse for bad behaviour.

Silly thing I do completely get this point of view. You can understand why I don't really want to go in to the ins and outs of my specific example.

(Edited to remove extra word "completely")

Translation: lock up all those who are different. Worked so well before.

Such a subjective topic - my perspective as a mum to an DS (5) with ASD who is often violent. If you haven't experienced a child with ASD you really have no idea what it's like. We don't have a TV, this is not about screens - he has been different since he was born. I was a devoted SAHM for the first 4 years of his life, and he was diagnosed age 3. Since then (we are abroad) we have seen an occupational therapist every week, a child psychiatrist and psychologist frequently to help support our child. He is in a mainstream private school where he mostly thrives - thanks to it being the right environment (small class sizes, no uniform, excellent staff to pupil ratio, lots of movement breaks and outside space, no school on Wednesdays). We have had 2 aggressive outbursts in 2 years and we always take it seriously because his school has zero tolerance sen or not. Infact one girl has been excluded for violence. That said my son knows very well the difference between right and wrong. He just cannot control his emotions due to his ASD - the best we can do is keep him regulated so that he can thrive in school - keeping him regulated is a full time job in itself. Conversely I see kids in his class who are violent and don't appear to have SEN but are poorly parented - allowed to do as they please by their parents. These things are different. It's so hard as a parent of an ASD kid to see how much hostility there is to kids like my son. At home I experience violence from him but I can't stop it, I can only try to redirect or disarm. It's not something I can parent away or minimise by reducing screen time. I wish people understood that.

Some parents 100% use a diagnosis to excuse poor behaviour. I feel horrible for you that you have to go through this BUT

I find it extremely concerning your son has been repeatedly excluded for violent behaviour and then been allowed back to school to physically harm and scare other children

And wasn’t it Gregg Wallace’s excuse for being a sleaze?!

Some of the comments here imply that parents of SEND children use a diagnosis as an excuse for poor behaviour. That has not been our experience and it certainly isn’t how we parent. My child has ASC and ADHD, an EHCP, and has still been excluded multiple times for violent, dysregulated behaviour so yes, schools can and do exclude SEND children.

We parent our child. We set boundaries. We work with the school and we work with him. Asking for help does not mean we are not doing that, it means we are doing everything we can. What we have been asking for is access to support and medication that is evidence‑based and proven to help children like him regulate.

He is smart, he is loving and he is funny. Hr does not need to be “locked away”. He needs the right support at the right time , not assumptions about his parents and not blanket statements about SEND that don’t reflect real life.

YANBU. I am getting sick to death of hearing about ASD and ADHD being used a mitigating factors for despicable behaviour. I don't give a shit about whatever else might be going on, the place to deal with that appropriately is in whichever secure, correctional insistution that young person finds themelves in, while the public is being protected from whatever they might be capable of.

It was the same as when Valdo Calocane was not sectioned because that particular NHS trust had concerns that a disproportionate number of men being sectioned were black and they were worried about the optics. So fucking what? Three people are dead and one woman has a broken back because of your worrying about optics.

Me too...
What can you expect from a child if you can't manage them at this age. By the time they are teenagers it's too late

Half the problem is inclusion IMO. Inclusion is good - but only up to a limit. The lack of special school places and the ridiculous policy that stops schools saying they’re simply not suitable for particular children means you have children in school who absolutely struggle. They’re so far away from their peers socially and emotionally. They’re in an environment they can’t cope with. They’re often unable to listen properly, to show empathy, and to act in appropriate ways.

Rather than the government’s latest idiotic SEN scheme that is, in reality, purely a money-saving exercise, we need more specialist places and we need to allow schools to refuse to have children whom they know the school environment won’t work for. Some parents are so busy insisting on their child’s right to a mainstream education, or so in denial about their issues, they fail to see that specialist provision would actually help their child enormously (as well as helping their peers). Placing those children elsewhere would remove the most extreme children, and then schools could focus on those that could be helped in mainstream.

I also think people underestimate how bloody depressing and enraging it is for other children to watch violent and poorly behaved children being rewarded, being given extra privileges (our school gives them biscuits and milkshakes), not having to do any work, not being punished for eating other children’s lunches, for hurting other children, for throwing chairs in class, for kicking children trying to learn, for ripping up children’s work, for laughing and shouting and disrupting lessons, for punching children and staff, etc. They do all that and then get rewarded with cookies and an iPad.

How does that affect the MH and aspirations of other children? Children have a strong sense of fairness. How does it affect them to see staff forced to pander to this behaviour?

As long as my child is safe from violence and fear in their school I dont care about what happens to others. That might sound cruel but I can only raise and advocate for my child, other people's issues/excuses/bad experiences aren't my problem.

@MrsLJH What did you expect anyone to do? Parent him? Remove him from you? Sedate him!? I think the obvious answer is removal. No one ever wants it though. Plus it’s a case of going to court and the judge agreeing. Maybe we need far more residential schools for dc like this? We do realise that mainstream doesn’t work! We need a very different take on what must happen if dc are dangerous.

It’s actually pretty simple, it’s just one of the many failings of the legal system. They should be locked up for 5 years +. If they’re school age on release, they should certainly not be allowed back into mainstream education.
Yes it requires funding, but it will make society much safer.

As a parent of a child with ASC and ADHD who has been suspended multiple times for violent, dysregulated behaviour, this is my deepest fear for his future. Yes, suspension does happen, even with a diagnosis and even with an EHCP in place. His dad and I have never used his additional needs as an excuse to let him do whatever he wants. We hold boundaries because we care about the adult he will become.

During his most difficult periods, when his behaviour was at its worst, I was begging for help every single day. I reached out repeatedly to the ADHD team, desperate for support, and was told there was nothing anyone could do.

One of the worst sentences allowed in the education system was "unmet need".

Society needs a shift. We try to implement consequences and get long complaints from parents as their child didn’t mean it. We try to get support from agencies - they’re drowning. We cannot exclude as it’s due to unmet needs we have told them we can’t meet. We are drowning in schools.

Don't allow them in the country for starters.

The knife was to protect themselves if attacked- stupid yes but that’s how 14 year old brains work sometimes- no it’s not a YAY but it’s a reality

Maybe lock him in a YOI for 5 years - no GCSEs but FS at least - at 18 into the adult prison population- that will ensure he never commits another offence