Violent children should be stopped regardless of other factors

Very depressing that ALL children are being let down by failing systems and poor parenting, lack of funding and multiple levels of deprivation/and disadvantage.

I have worked with children in care many of whom had multiple complex Dx of mental health conditions and developmental disorder, all had attachment disorder. It was difficult to distinguish between severe early trauma and mild ASD traits. There is a growing interest in the sociological/psychological model of ADHD and how maternal stress in pregnancy, and parental stresses might contribute to a child having a Dx of ADHD. One child was described by his therapist as Psychopathic.Most self harmed, head banged, threw furniture, inflicted harm upon other children, assaulted staff, made threats to kill. Despite all of this I felt optimistic that some of the YP would make some progress in their lives and have some prospect of an ordinary life. For the record, we didn't use harsh punishments either, its been proven ineffectual and counterproductive. Instead we focused on emotional and physical containment, relationships, and empathy- the child needed to experience empathy for them to start to develop empathy, and this came from a place of understanding the need to rely on others. Its based on trust. If people mean boundaries by the word discipline-fair do, but if they mean punishing a confused child, an overwhelmed child, or a child that may be subject to abuse and neglect at home/in another setting then .....NO.

What is also depressing is reading some of the comments on this thread.

"They don’t, other kids are just boring collateral to the violent, aggressive.. sorry .deregulated and failed poor wee lambs.."

Autistic kids tied to a radiator is an infamous black and white photo of two children tied to a radiator in a hospital for "mentally handicapped children" Look it up. There is also a black and white film showing a day in the life of "subnormal children in long term hospital care" which is very chilling. I have seen it but I can't find a link on you tube.

Here are some links, hopefully a very quick read over some of the history of institutionalized care for children with SEND and the history of how children with SEND have been thought of and treated in our very recent past will put recent thinking into perspective.

https://university.open.ac.uk/health-and-social-care/research/shld/timeline-learning-disability-history

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/experts-demand-major-overhaul-of-safeguarding-system-to-protect-children-with-disabilities-from-abuse-at-childrens-homes

^"It is often assumed that the defeat of Hitler’s Germany ushered in an assertion of universal human value. But the 1944 Education Act, one of the most cherished achievements of the postwar welfare state, divided children into two distinct groups: the “educable” and the “ineducable”. Schools for the “educationally subnormal” were established for those on the borderline, but a small cohort was rejected as not worth the trouble. Their destiny was to live in overcrowded “long-stay hospitals” for the rest of their lives, ignored and almost entirely forgotten." https://www.stephenunwin.uk/thoughts-and-provocations/2026/2/16/no-child-is-ineducable^

Maybe the 2001 SEND Act was a cynical money saving experiment, or maybe it came about in response to changes in the way we view children with SEND. Either way we are still failing ALL children. It really is one of those failures of liberal thinking that overlooks the fact that the rights of individuals often conflict and true equality does not exist as soon as you choose to privilege the rights of one group/individual over those of another.

Apparently a teacher n the PRU where he was raised concerns about his violent character but a member of a MH team accused her of racially stereotyping him as a black boy with a knife and her concerns were ignored. A lot of teachers in secondary schools will recognise this, avoid the slightest hint of any racial reaction at the expense of the rest of the school.

But priorities! How awful are you for considering your own child’s well being! Don’t you know that they don’t matter!

They’ll still trying to figure out how they can blame everyone but him for his murderous actions…

They don’t, other kids are just boring collateral to the violent, aggressive.. sorry .deregulated and failed poor wee lambs..

i do wonder what would happen if we stopped such cosseting and protecting violent individuals!
. Soo Timmy has punched Julie, kicked Alfie and destroyed the class art exhibit… well y3… how can we all do better for Timmy? He’s off for an ice cream
and to play call of duty on his iPad in the heads room…when he chooses to come back to class, let’s be making sure we treat Timmy like the priority he is.

Would you want to sit in a class knowing that you are likely to be punched at random?

In my day that was every day. From teachers and other students.

The leader of the enquiry said AR did not have a mental health condition.

Tasers.

Blanket tasering of any and all people walking around weilding a knife.

Ideal world.

But ARs actions weren't due to autistic meltdowns. It was planned and premeditated murder.

I’m not sure that your average playground bully does eventually become a child murderer, in all honesty.

What man exile said

A lot of these kids are basically bullies and need to know where the line is

It may take until adulthood for them to realise this. A lot easier in early childhood!

It needs investment in both mental health and SEND provision then kids causing the biggest issues could get help and any excuses removed. No child should be wrecking educational opportunities for a class full of kids. MH/Send does not trump everyone else!
It's all very well saying the issues of a child is non of anyone else's business, but in reality their problems are played out publicly making it everyones problem.
Going back to 2001, my DD was sexually assaulted in yr6 by boy in her class, the school tried the 'we can't discuss ' my reply was he's 10, the police and MP can discuss instead. Guess what, suddenly both school and parents were happy to start discussing! I knew the kid, knew he wasn't being malicious, it was impulsive but the behaviour was both illegal and unacceptable to be tolerated. We worked together to protect both kids!

I completely agree OP. It’s never an excuse. It’s like we live in a society now where everyone who practices bad behaviour has an excuse. My sister was harrased by years by someone with learning difficulties, yet he was treated like the victim.

My heart goes out to the families of those poor girls in Southport. They should have never experienced this horror.

@TheKittenswithMittens we’ll be stuffed if Farage and his lot get in too, given that he thinks that gun laws need to be relaxed and the ban on handguns is “ludicrous”.

You know, handguns that were banned after Dunblane.

www.thenational.scot/news/25927271.nigel-farage-said-guns-dunblane/

Has anyone suggested locking up "all those who are different"?

No

I think what has been suggested is locking up - or at least dealing differently from how we do at the moment - those who pose a real threat to others and /or seriously disrupt the lives and learning experience of other children.

Earlier today I posted a video about Brendan Depa in the US who seriously beat and injured a teaching assisitant.

He had been violent and dysregulated throughout most of his life and had various ASD and ADHD diagnoses. He was completely out of control and teachers were physically scared of him and warned never to challenge him.

He ended up in a US correctional facility - and guess what - he stopped kicking off because he'd get the shit kicked out of him by people even more scary than he was.

Now I'm not suggesting that sort of solution in the UK, but perhaps a different approach is required for those who refuse to behave in an acceptable manner - whatever their diagnoses...

And feed the rhetoric that we are lazy. How dare we strike when we fine for term time holidays, we need to go to work etc. All from the parents whose children we are trying to help from such action. I’m old and fed up of being blamed for everything. I know it’s not the attitude but I'm being honest.

Where have I condoned it? I am stating facts that are well recognised. I haven't said it's in any way an acceptable situation - for anyone.

I’m not aware of this happening in the UK recently either

yes the Romanian orphanage scandal

It's a difficult one because if a child was regularly witnessing violence, shouting, swearing, chair throwing etc at home, the police and SS would quite rightly step in to protect them.

Yet at school, many children have to witness this in the classroom and it must be genuinely frightening.

No school children should be exposed to violence, or at least not twice from the same offender.

As someone with a lot of experience in special school that this repeated 'in a mainstream class' is annoying.

I am hoping it comes from a place of assuming the violence dissappears in a special school class as the child is now supported but it comes across like its fine for special school children to be exposed to violence as long as mainstream children are ok.