Fuel protests in the UK - good thing or not

I remember the last protests. All I saw were the consequences for the most vulnerable - people with illnesses and disabilities who were unable to use public transport, who suddenly had no means to manage essential travel. I saw ambulances blocked from getting to where they needed to go. And I failed to see how anyone with a functioning moral compass could support that.

I feel the same way about the current protests. I don't care who's doing it and where they stand politically. They're scum.

I have neither the time, nor the crayons to go through the whole post but:

• The duckhouse expense claim was never approved so the taxpayer never paid out.
• Johnson's wallpaper was paid for by a private donor, was it not?
• Did the taxpayer buy the suitcases full of booze? Receipts please.
• Council tax mostly goes to social care

I keep seeing people dismiss this as “far right,” but that doesn’t reflect everyone involved or supporting it. I’m fully in support of the protests, and I’m not far right, I’m not racist, and for me this has nothing to do with immigration.

Reducing it to that label just shuts down any real conversation. A lot of ordinary people support what’s happening because they’re worried about livelihoods, rising costs, and the sustainability of essential industries. These are real concerns that deserve to be heard, not brushed off or mischaracterised.

It’s entirely possible to support these protests while also believing in fairness, respect, and equality for everyone. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

This. Even if the customer did benefit in the short term, tax breaks aren’t a solution to a supply side issue. Oil is currently more expensive because there is less of it on the market, and if there continues to be less of it we are all going to have to look at reducing our consumption. Some people want there to be a simple solution which doesn’t require them to change their own behaviour.

I wouldn't have said they were a success. They just stopped ordinary people going about their day, they didn't drop the price at all.

“I’ve seen a lot of X online’ ‘significant online community’ mate it’s your algorithm showing you loads of posts because you acted interested in the content.

Like the other thread currently in active saying that loads of people think that the Artemis moon mission was a hoax because they are seeing lots of comments online.

Its not everywhere, it’s just everywhere for you.

The government isn't "cashing in" or "making money", what do you think taxes are for? It doesn't go in anyone's pockets (like company profits do), it's more money for our services.
And MP's second homes, complete with duckhouses.
And their booze.
And their extremely generous pay rises, which the rest of us can only dream of, and which isolate them even further from the realities which their constituents face.
And Boris Johnson's wallpaper.
And his drunken parties in 2020.
And months of months of paying people not to work, because they frightened the pants off the public (another debate, I know).
And the billions wasted on useless PPE.
And the extremely expensive app.
And that utterly wasteful Millennium Dome.
And Liz Truss's ill-deserved prime ministerial pension.
And council tax going up and up and up, yet the roads are more cratered and potholed than ever, and guess who pays for repairs to their cars?

I could go on and on. I wouldn't mind paying taxes if governments would spend them wisely, but government after government seems content to piss them up the wall, so it's no wonder that many people are resentful about paying for more and more of the above.

Life is getting more and more and more expensive, which is not entirely the current government's fault: this war fiasco is the latest in a long, long line of things to hurt people's pockets; but people are still reeling that we have been fucked over again, and again, and again by government after government, and some bankers as well. People might eventually get angry and start fuel protests, not caring that it will hurt everybody else, as well as them.

I know I'm contributing by replying, but we must also remember one thing: if we talk about fuel protests on social media, they are more likely to actually happen.

Firstly you can't apply percentages to fuel duty because unlike VAT it's charged at a flat rate per litre. So scrub your 55%, the government is only getting around 15p extra per litre from the VAT, it gets exactly the same amount of duty - it may even be losing out if supply/consumption reduces.

As for red diesel:

The fuel duty on red diesel is 10.18p per litre and the VAT is 5%.

Before Trump's war, red diesel was around 66p per litre, so the VAT will have been 3-4p per litre and the duty 10.18p.

Now red diesel is around 120p per litre. Vat on this is about 6p and duty still 10.18p

So your proposal takes a couple of pennies off the end price, because the government isn't profiteering from red diesel.

What all this actually shows is that having high rates of fuel duty actually insulates the public when wholesale costs spike. Farmers have low rates of fuel duty and have seen their costs double, but ordinary consumers have only seen it increase by a third. It might have been higher to start with but at least you had budgeted for that.

You reckon that the petrol stations would pass on the reduction to consumers? Do they ever?

Even if they did, the lower prices would increase demand and because the supply/demand imbalance problem has not been solved the prices would just go back up and/or you'll have shortages.

Instead of blocking roads I wish they would spend some time maintaining all those flags they have put up .. right tatty mess.

I noticed last week that parts of Dublin have been affected by this. Lamp posts where battered tricolours hang limply from only one of the cable ties they used to be attached to. Eejits.

Changing tax rate % complex and just not a reasonable response to a short term problem. It takes a lot of resource and complexity across finance systems etc- it’s hard enough to do when the rate is changing permanently.

i believe red oil has doubled in price

An interesting comment on the Irish protests was that it wasnt possible to negotiate with them because they had no idea what they wanted.

So who exactly will be leading it, I suggest that it will be traitors who are acting on behalf of either the super rich or other hostile nations.

God I hope not. I'm rural so public transport is one train a hour then a two mile walk to Sainsbury's or a ten mile round walk from home.

I would definitely be spending less if it was all going to be hauled about in backpack. Increasingly since covid this kind of talk sets off a anarchist feeling within me and I'm a pretty straight boring scientist who scoffs at things like conspiracy theories, etc. So, no idea where this urge to "beat the system" comes from? But I'd see myself and kids living off a sack of rice and never leaving the house going feral and refusing to suck it up on the once a day bus into town. I'd be more "fuck this I opt out of life" eat local rats and drink my own piss.

Ie I'm done with the war mentality of we are in this together keep calm and carry on.

My disabled son gets a taxi to his school. So does his SEN brother. A lack of education pushes him closer daily to supported living, which increasingly seems an attractive option.

Feel better for saying that..I blame peri and my worry-o-metre being burnt out. Bring on no education and rotisserie rats

@mindutopia are you on heating oil? If so have you looked at the help on offer? I don't know where you are but in Scotland eligibility is related to certain benefits, or financial hardship and a health condition.

Stating that the fuel protests in Ireland are successful is incorrect and that this will come to the UK is quite frankly scaremongering - would suggest looking further into this before trying to start such a discussion.

I have no idea how much red diesel has increased by since the start of the war, or how much vat and fuel duty is applied to it, but I would agree that reducing the duty and vat to a level commensurate with what the actual government portion was earlier in the year would be sensible. I live in an area that has a huge amount of farming, both arable and livestock, but so many farmers are retiring, or worse, filling their fields with solar farms. My county has the largest acreage of solar in England. I’d keep petrol and diesel duty where it is for now, but if it continues to increase then yes, cut the VAT take to 5%. Higher fuel prices does mean that people ration themselves, so if petrol availability is slightly reduced due to the ongoing war, there’s enough fuel available. There wouldn’t be a loss of revenue as, for example, 55% (duty and vat) of a £1.80 litre is higher than 55% of £1.35. The government will still be getting what they were before all of this started.

I mean considering the bumper tax they are getting due to the increased prices it’s not exactly fair to say they couldn’t shave a couple of pence off and be back in the same position as prior.

They are making good on the public being squeezed.

Cutting duty on agricultural oil (red oil) is different to cutting it on publicly sold petrol and diesel. Which one would you cut? Or would you cut both? How much would that cost the tax payer in lost revenue?

Boycotting American items would be a better start because it's the result of their vote that has caused all the shit.

The new Public Order Act that came in in 2023 (that the The Mail etc were delighted about), focussed on behaviour such as this .. mainly aimed at JSO and Extinction Rebellion. These laws are stronger in England & Wales, than in Ireland. If you block a road here, you can go to Prison for 5 years .. like some JSO people have done.

I’m guessing the right-wingers that now want to block the roads, are the same right-wingers celebrating when JSO were arrested for doing the same.

Instead of blocking roads I wish they would spend some time maintaining all those flags they have put up .. right tatty mess.

This

Absolutely this!

Something has to be cut elsewhere if taxes are reduced…

It's been mentioned already up-thread but it was definitely in 2000 when people couldn't top up for weeks.

I remember because my start date for a new job got pushed back from September to October 2000 due to the travel restrictions. It also messed up my relocation plans with the new job location being 85-90 miles away.

Despite having concern for the environment the majority of the UK population were inconvenienced, irritated and not supportive of the actions of movements such as Just Stop Oil

I'd be surprised if many people would support a fuel protest, apart from those who have a political agenda

I don't think many of us will welcome tractors in Westminster or any other such nonsense