AIBU to think mental health crises should not be treated as antisocial behaviour

I used to live next door to an older teenager who was struggling with mental health issues. Every other day there would be ambulances and police outside my front door. She would often go out in public and harm herself to get attention, and she regularly threaten to take her own life before running off. She never followed through. She was also very nasty to people and had attacked community workers and police in the past.

Her mum would always call the police if she ran off and they always had to attend. If something had happened and no one responded, they would have gotten into trouble. It clearly put a huge strain on emergency services, and you could tell both the police and paramedics were exasperated by it.

Her mother seemed overwhelmed and wasn’t getting the support she needed. Meanwhile, neighbours (including myself) were being woken up at all hours of the night constantly, and people in the community who kept encountering her in distress were also becoming increasingly shaken and unsure how to respond.

It was just a very sad and difficult situation all around, and I honestly don’t know what the right answer is. There should be some sort of consequence for all the time and resources of the emergency services she took up but it’s clearly rooted in a much deeper issue that she wasn't getting the right support and care.

I moved house in the end. My DD was getting older and I didn't want her to witness all the constant drama.

I think the OP has made a mistake by using an individual example, when what she really seems to be raising is a policy change

The hit rate is pretty poor in my experience.

With the greatest respect to people who are suicidal (and I have been there), the kind of behaviour described in this thread is antisocial and it isn’t the police’s job to be community mental health experts. The police need to be able to do their jobs and support everyone in the community.

I used to do some work with TfL and saw drivers, good, compassionate people, have their lives ruined - at least for a period of time - because of suicides.

People who are in mental health crisis and suicidal naturally often have very little insight into how their behaviour affects others, and I think some element of ‘tough love’ may be helpful in some cases, helping people realise that the emergency services are not just there for them, and that no matter how deep their distress, other people have lives and problems too. If they are frequently behaving in ways that cause a lot of inconvenience, distress and cost to the wider community they need to know that that is a serious problem.

It sounds un compassionate but if the current system had enough capacity and could cope, I don’t think measures like this would be brought in.

Suicide in a public place isn’t an inconvenience, it’s hugely traumatic for those present. I know the train driver who could never work again after a man (my friend’s dad) jumped off a bridge in front of his train on Christmas Eve.

Not sure what the answer is and no idea about your friend’s circumstances but it does suggest more than one incident and it’s a cry for help so she needs to find better ways to do that. I hope she gets the help she needs but no one here can say whether the police are right or not based on half facts.

@Serencwtch

when it happens so frequently (few times a week here) you become desensitised, it’s not that you don’t care but it’s become just another alert from the local facebook group that you can’t get to where you need to be or my neighbour panicking because she’s stuck the other side (for 90 minutes) and school child care closes at 6. We do care a believe we need better mh care but please don’t sit on bridges and think of train drivers. Unintended consequences mean we lose compassion

So they did not meet the criteria for suffering from a mental disorder that required long term detention, were found to be at no risk of harm for their own or others safety and that detention is not necessary for treatment.

Then there is an issue with the behaviour. I know it doesn’t sound fair, but if this person is not meeting the threshold criteria for longer term detention then this would suggest that the repeated behaviour is anti-social, no? A repeated deliverate public display of distress? I’m not saying that’s not coming from nowhere or that they are not suffering but I am not sure what the alternative would be other than the repetition of this scenario over and over again. All the police have been able to do is respond and get them assessed under S136. That’s all they can do. So when this happens multiple times and diverts vital resources from emergencies they have to try something.

But that doesn’t make any sense. How does a ASB order stop some kids finding a dead body?

these ideas might seem logical to people who are terrified of breaking the law but if you are about to kill yourself, a community order is hardly a deterrent is it?! So what’s the point?

I agree

Those with drug and alcohol addiction cause lots of anti social behaviour but is it due to mental health or lifestyle choices or both.

In any event they dont trump people attempting to go about their lives in a law abiding way.

The excuses made when crimes are committed though, anything yo excuse behaviour. Perhaps part of the solution is more rehab and mental health support

Too many variables to have a single approach. Whereas often I would say Yanbu there are plenty of circumstances where it definitely is anti social behaviour, eg sitting on the motorway bridge stopping traffic flow, 20 mile detour (think of costs as well as inevitable congestion) now realise one individual has done this 5 times in a month, 17 hours of closures and yes that individual as an anti social behaviour order not allowing them within 200m of the bridge, their safety and for the rest of us a good thing. I’m thinking of single situation as are you op but as every situation is different this can’t be taken as a solution for everyone.

What of the people that find the body? My friends little brother found a person who had killed themsleves on our local beach when he was about 11 and it messed him up.

One of the reasons the police are not following up your car vandalism, burglary or the anti social little gits down the road is they spend so much time dealing with MH issues. Now that’s for the health service to sort surely, well that’s creaking at the seams. If someone is hanging themsleves or standing on a bridge threatening to jump as much as it is sad it is anti social.

Yes very sad and bleak.

If appropriate mental health care was given sooner, there would be fewer incidents for everyone - the person themselves, their families, the public, the NHS, the police - to respond to overall.

Absolutely shocked by the lack of compassion here. The police really aren’t qualified to judge on someone’s mental health and giving these kinds of orders could make things a million times worse.

On the plus side it’s finally given me the push to deregulate from MN. So much bile about people who are suffering.

Yes of course, I didn’t mean to imply they were admitted under a 136. But it’s not exactly rare for a 136 to be followed up by a 2 or 3 is it?!

I used to volunteer for a MH telephone helpline.

there always have been people who make repeated self harming and/or go to places and think about throwing themselves off but do not do it on a very, very regular basis.

we usually had a list of “regulars” as it were, some of whom were so regular it was almost every week.

with the best will in the world this is not the role of the police. They need help - but the police are not the right people to give it and I think it is fair that after multiple call outs the police essentially refuse to come.

You can’t just rid society of mentally ill people and hide them away. The naivety of people who think mental health crisis can be cured by a helpline, a&e or a fast track to a psychiatrist 😭 many of these people who will have life long mental illness. They’ll just plod along as best they can between crisis’

Yes but that would be a S2 or S3 having been assessed by 2 qualified psychiatrists not S136 which is a police holding power. These are in no way the same thing. In case the user name doesn’t give it away I am a psychiatrist

Perhaps the people attempting self harm in a public place are so desperate that they believe it's the only way to get any attention or help. It's very sad that suicide is expected to be performed in an acceptable manner and not inconvenience anyone. On one hand people are expected to manage their own mental illnesses with absolutely no help, yet they're also not allowed to become suicidal or become a nuisance for others to deal with either. A very sad and bleak situation.

Yes obviously 'something should be done about it' - they should be receiving appropriate mental health care!

Yeah. Some 78 year old fucker has been arrested for vandalising James Bulger’s grave. Claiming mental health. I actually don’t give a fuck any more. I hope they throw the book at him.

I think YABU because these cases are very complex and it really does take a lot for police to take such steps!

Well in that case an order is very much justified. They need to be deterred from this behaviour that is helping no one and to engage with more constructive options. Admission cannot help an issue like this.