to think some women feel entitled to free childcare from their DM/MILs just because they had help themselves?

I don’t know anyone who expects or has 5 day a week around the clock childcare from gps. I do know lots who have 1 day/a pick up from school/sleepovers etc.

I have known women who have returned to work after retirement because there was an expectation from their daughters that they would pick up full time child care. No asking, just the expectation.

One woman was expected to pick up full time care for 5 grandchildren pretty much the week after she retired. She had plans for her retirement - travelling, trying new activities, not being at the beck and call of others. She'd worked full time from when her DDs were very small and understandably thought she'd earned her retirement. She came along to 2-3 of my classes and then told me she was returning to work because of the pressure she was under from her DDs. Their expectation really soured their relationships.

I'm sure the vast majority of grandparents want to help their adult children with childcare to some extent but there certainly seems to be a lot of entitlement on the part of their adult children.

My MIL is far more involved in my DS’s life. Willingly provides childcare (her idea) and pops round all the time.

My own DM didn’t want to provide childcare and rarely sees us because she “has her own life don’t you know”. This is upsetting in itself but what really annoys me is when she begrudges my DS being close to my MIL or is annoyed by my DS being completely unbothered by her presence when she eventually does decide to see us. You can’t have it both ways!

I get what you are saying regarding gender roles, but it won't change in a day. Historically, childcare was seen as a "woman's business" and women helped each other because they couldn't rely on the men in their lives. It was a generational social contact: if grandma helped mom, mom feels a subconscious (or conscious) obligation to help her daughter. When that chain breaks, the daughter may feel "cheated" out of something she saw everyone else in the family (especially her own mother) receive. It's made worse because we are living in a period where the need for free childcare is at an all-time high because of the rising COL.

Grandfathers are still often viewed as "helpers". If they show up to a football game, they’re doing great. Grandmothers are still culturally viewed as "caregivers." Society (and family) often defaults to the woman when a child needs something.

Do you think this expectation is fueled more by the media's portrayal of "perfect families," or is it strictly a result of the practical, financial pressures parents are facing today? Your responses to other posters seem like you are angry about the situation, and unwilling to accept that societal norms are slow to change. Is someone trying to guilt you into looking after your grandchildren?

This generation of fathers is different - let's hope that they will also make better grandfathers.

Nobody helped my mother with childcare, my mother was always happy to help with her DGC.
Mainly the first batch as she got older, less able.

I see plenty of grandparents helping because they can, not because they’re forced too.

My eldest niece is due her first baby and we will all be available to help her, she helped me and my sisters many times.
Some families are happier than others to help.

If you have capacity to easily help out your kids and you dont, when your parents did it for you, then you are obviously more selfish towards your children than your parents were to you. You're free to be selfish, of course, and your children are free to think of you as selfish. If you're still working full time to make ends meet while your parents were retired then obviously that's just different circumstances rather than selfishness. If you're golfing or lunching or whatever 5 days a week.....selfish. The woman/man thing perhaps comes from fewer women in their 50s working full time than men, otherwise I cant really see the difference.

I was looked after a lot by my grandparents as a child, and my husband was looked after a lot by his. We did not expect regular childcare from our parents as mine still work and his don’t live that close. But we were surprised when we had children and nobody offered to babysit at all, even for an hour or so, but everyone expected us to visit regularly so they could hold our baby and take pictures. It was a bit annoying but we accepted that this was the level of involvement our parents wanted. The only time I’ve ever gotten “annoyed” about it was when my mum berated me for asking for help in an emergency and implied that she had no help when her children were young, which I know is simply not true.

I never had any help from my parents at all. That made me want to make sure dd got help. But I let her take the piss for to long i have stepped back now because or was to much. Now she tells everyone i do fuck all to help and I took the only thing away that she had. She doesn't know I know that though I can't be arsed to bring it up.

You’re projecting! You clearly expect your children to do so all the organising and planning so you can see your GC because you can’t be bothered! Nothing to do with childcare, everything to do with lazy grandparents that cant be bothered making any effort and then blame their children for the fact they have no bond with their grandchildren.

I think it’s really normal to have family ways of doing things so if you spend lots of time with your gps you would think it’s normal.

You keep saying this without acknowledging then men over 50, so the grandfathers are more likely to work, more likely to work full time and more likely to be the breadwinner in that household. Women over 50 pick up more childcare than men over 50 because they have more capacity to do it.

My FiL is the one I feel sorry for. He told me once that he wanted to have more children but his wife was so sick after having my husband that she couldn't face it. He made some noise about moving closer to us so they coild see any future grandchildren but she wouldn't have it.

I disagree. My parents did daily child care for us, my PILs only ever did “fun babysitting”.

When they were little my parents had to be stricter with them as they were effectively in loco parentis whereas my PILs would let them swing from the chandeliers and stuff them full of sweeties guilt free as they were only behaving as grandparents.

The relationship now the kids are adults aren’t inherently different from the kids point of view.

Interestingly my parents were the “fun grandparents” for their other grandchildren as they didn’t do childcare for them due to distance.

They still treat the grandchildren differently, expecting more from
my DC than from my niblings

What does that have to do with what I said?

You can't expect to see them the same amount as someone providing childcare. That really is simple maths. The Grandparent isn't free in that time and the parent is at work, so if the DC doesn't go to the grandparent they go elsewhere. A parent cannot create extra days in their week to visit their parent.

And isn't that what the grandparent wants anyway? Seeing less doesn't necessarily = rubbish relationship. My parents don't offer my DC regular childcare. But they carve out time and effort for my DC so they have lovely relationships with my them.

I have seen the opposite. My MiL freely admits that she dumped her son on her mother all the time but told us in no uncertain terms was she providing child care and my Mum said she didn't have any help so why should we. Probably good we chose not to have children. If they ever complain about not getting grandchildren I can throw this back at them.

I think many of us are actually recalling spending large chunks of our childhoods with our Greatest Generation and Silent Generation grandparents, and comparing our relationships with them to our children’s with their Baby Boomer grandparents.

Its unfair to say well if you don’t do childcare then you just have to accept seeing them less

Is it unfair, or is it just a fact of time not being infinite? My parents cannot spend as much time with my children as my in laws do, because my in laws do 2 days a week of childcare.
It’s nothing to do with me prioritising my in laws over my parents.

At the very least child doesn’t see it as transactional or a favour. They see one grandparent that they see regularly, feeds them, plays with them, engages with them and that builds a degree of trust and devotion that one or two days a month visit with supervised by their parents will never generate.

By all means don’t look after your grandchildren if you don’t want to, but don’t blame the lack of relationship on the parents being transactional of sexism. Own it yourself.

In my culture, it's not that way inclined. Especially where grandparents are still a couple. My grandad retired before my grandmother so he was the one who was initially looking after us grandkids and his MIL while his wife worked. Then she retired so they both did it.

Grandparents who don’t help with childcare will inevitably see the grandchildren less though? I’m confused how you think they won’t? My Nan looked after us two days a week growing up, that meant she saw us 2 days per week plus probably one weekend day a month. If she hadn’t looked after us 2 days per week then she would have seen us only on that 1 weekend day a month… grandparents can’t have it both ways ‘we won’t offer help but we want to see the children 8 times a month’. If both parents work full time they have around 8 full days of family time, they have to split those days between spending time as a family, seeing two sets of grandparents, seeing friends, doing kids activities etc etc etc

I think it’s weird to not want to help your children and grandchildren out tbh, within reason of course. Also, how many grandparents will look to their children and grandchildren in years to come when they suddenly and inevitably require care…?