to think some women feel entitled to free childcare from their DM/MILs just because they had help themselves?

And don't forget that a generation ago there were many more 'latchkey' kids - the kids (often aged under 10) that fended for themselves until one of the DPs came home.

Nowadays many here would be putting in a call to social services or the NSPCC
if they knew of a 'latchkey' kid.

fact remains that all my life a lot of things have been happening that I am opposed to and spoke out against, and I resent being told that all this time I have been feathering my own nest. That isn't how things work.

You can’t complain about double standards when your thread is about women/mums. What about the men/dads?

From what I’ve seen , heard and read it’s a bit more complicated than that.

Like only/mostly asking to see the child on a day when they’re in childcare. Or when the family is on a big/nice day out . Or when the parents are busy and they know that. Coupled with constant complaints that “we never get to see her/him.” . It’s a very specific set of circumstances .

To use your analogy, it would be like Jane always asking to see you on your working days, or only meeting up for the Zumba class when you can give her a lift , then complaining “I barely see you anymore!”.

OP why do you think it’s only women that feel entitled to free childcare? What about the men. Your generations’ sons?

Unsure why you’re going for working women here

There is also a double standard. The pressure seems to fall much more on grandmothers than grandfathers. Even if a grandfather is retired and not working, the expectation is not there or much less for him.

You are right of course, but I do find it interesting that the title of this thread is about "mothers" expecting childcare from their mothers and MILs, as if childcare is purely the mother's responsibility and nothing to do with the father...

@Feelingworried26 that argument doesn’t stack up due to demographic changes. policies in this country is focused on the grey vote

But on that basis, your generation must be responsible for the cost of living crisis, world wars and escalating climate change. The fact that undesirable things happen during someone's youth and middle years doesn't mean that person wanted or supported them.Have you made deliberate political choices to increase the cost of living? I certainly haven't.

Everybody wants to spend time with others 'when it suits them' surely? People have busy lives and it's not unreasonable to want to see your GC at a time you're available to do so (if they can be free then of course) rather than at a time it suits their parents because it's childcare. We wouldn't act that way about any other relationship.

I see my family & friends regularly not necessarily when it just suits me. Relationships involve time & effort & compromise.

Everybody wants to spend time with others 'when it suits them' surely? People have busy lives and it's not unreasonable to want to see your GC at a time you're available to do so (if they can be free then of course) rather than at a time it suits their parents because it's childcare. We wouldn't act that way about any other relationship. We don't say "I'm annoyed with my friend because she only wants to see me when she's not busy and I want her to see me on a Thursday so she can give me a lift to yoga" would we?
Pulling out of babysitting agreements is wrong of course.

You say this as if these children are just strangers to them, it’s not just some random children that their children decided to have.. it’s their grand children.. their close relatives.. human beings that exist partly because of them. I’m not saying that that means they have to provide childcare for them but it’s not a case of ‘interrupting’ their later years to look after some random children.

I agree that i dont think it's about punishment but a result of the natural way relationships develop. I think its a case of closeness developing due to frequency and shared involvement.

If one set of grandparents is helping regularly, you see them more and develop a better relationship which in turn creates goodwill and makes it easier to organise time together outside of childcare.

If another grandparent isn't involved in that way you just don't have those regular touch points. Its not necessarily a conscious decision to see them less but the relationship might be a bit more distant simply because of less contact.

I’m late sixties now and never had children through choice. I can see why people don’t want to interrupt their later life looking after the children that their children have chosen to have. If you have them, be prepared to look after them.

We've got three children that were in nursery from 1 yo to school age and we spent best part of 70k in total over those nursery years and never had any help.

The stress of either me or my my husband having to drop everything to collect poorly children was horrible, or having to drop at nursery as early as possible and fight the traffic to get to work for a 9am start. Our careers were pretty much put on hold for those years.

I'm not saying we were entitled to childcare from anyone (my mum still worked fulltime and I don't think my MIL wanted to be tied to committing to providing childcare for us - it was easier to do it for her daughter because her daughter lived with her), but if I can, I will not put my children through the stress and financial burden of those early years if i'm im the privileged position of being healthy and retired.

Even if I can commit to just one day a week it will save them hundreds a month and take away some of the stress.

Also, both my MIL and own mum never had any help with childcare because neither of them worked when raising childcare. Looking back none of my friends mum's did either. As a result I think a lot of older people don't think to ask if we need help because they never had any - i dont think its malicious. They just haven't thought about it and don't necessarily realise how different things are now.

Its also unfair to punish loving grandparents for not doing so, by reducing their access to their DGCs

I don’t know anyone who thinks “my parents don’t do childcare so I will refuse to see them at the weekends as retaliation”. When people talk about their parents seeing the children less because they don’t do childcare, they just mean because you will obviously see the children less if you aren’t seeing them a fixed day every week.

And yet you have only focussed on WOMEN/MUMS feeling entitled to free childcare from grandmothers. You keep saying only grandmothers are expected to give free childcare etc but you’re doing the same thing in your thread by only focussing on women. What about people’s sons expecting their parents to provide childcare?

I will never understand how some families are so distant, perhaps it’s cultural. For us it’s completely normal for other members to be involved in dcs lives, sometimes too much!

This thread looks suspiciously like a similar one and the OP writes as such. The bolding especially 🤔

I think we just expect our mothers to help because, generationally, that's what women did - they helped one another out with childcare, domestic chores etc.

IMO, we are all now very selfish and helping our own families seems to be an act that generates resentment.

It's actually quite sad to see our society break down, as far as family support and values go, but until people stop acting like we're here to be everything for strangers and ourselves, and nothing for our families, this is where we'll be.

Edited to add: I didn't have help from my mother, because we don't leave near to one another but I know she would have helped me and I will certainly be helping out my own children when the time comes.

I will never understand people who choose to became parents and then expect family members to give up their free time to help them manage that choice.

The negative feelings for GP’s not ‘stepping up’ is partly because DADS are still not stepping up! Who goes part-time? Who picks up an ill child from nursery? Who works full-time and still does all the childcare/admin/housework? If there truly was a 50/50 split a lot of this aggrievement towards gps would go away. And it’s usually towards MiL if the latest diatribes are anything to go by.