To ask, what people’s expectations are for how often a father has the child?

My DH doesn't work.. he is not a SAHD, he contributes to the household. I wouldn't have the kids 6 days a week... I've actually already said he has an older son who is 50/50 and I've described how my husband is involved in absolutely everything to do with parenting (school, activities, social life, buys uniforms, packs lunches, does dental and medical appointments etc). If we were ever to split, he would have 50/50 of our kids too.

I ran the calculator on that basis because some people were suggesting that CMS payments were there to cover the residential parent doing loads of extra work. But in reality it doesn't pay anywhere near enough to cover absolutely everything.

I've no idea why the calculator gave me that figure. Presumably because my DH already has a child (so subsequent kids would get less) and that my wages are significantly higher? I dont know... I was just checking it to show how little some people would be entitled to.

So doesn’t your dh work?

is he a sahd?

last time I looked cms was 20% of salary. So £100 a year is a salary of £2000 annually.

he doesn’t financially contribute to the family now, so why would you expect different if you split?

if he’s a sahd why would you have the kids 6 days?

unless I’ve missed something, you have a marriage where he doesn’t work and you are still primary parent.

why would you expect any different if you split? Divorce won’t turn a crap dad into a good one.

I just ran the calculator as if my DH & I seperated, 2 kids and I had them 6 days a week him 1..... apparently I'd be entitled to £3.80 a week 😂😂 That's less than £100 each a year.

But some people think that apparently covers the other parents share of kids upbringing for half the week 🙄

And some men think the paltry amount of maintenance is good evidence he supports the children.

My ex told me, seemingly genuinely, that he had been paying maintenance directly to the CMS. Turns out he’d merely set up a direct debit for the minimum amount which is £0 because he barely works. Of course, telling people he “pays the CMS amount” sounds fine, because he’s not actually stating he’s paying nothing.

Some men genuinely kid themselves that they do enough, because they mostly associate the kids with the mum. Also misogyny.

Every single situation is different... in my DHs case it is 50/50 and both parents are involved in every day life (school, medical, activities, social life etc).

A friend of mine does 3 weekends a month (Thursday till Monday) so 12ish nights a month with the Dad. It works for them as she generally works weekends then.

Some other people leave all the important elements of parenting to the resident parent and think the pittance (which CMS is) that they pay toward their kids upkeep means they are the world's best dad.

Loads of other examples on this thread but every single family will be different.

Just to add - while I agree that 4 days a month (or less, in my ex’s case) does not constitute good parenting, neither is it the case that having 50:50 or close to automatically means the guy is a good parent. Wanting time with your kids is a necessary, but by no means sufficient, condition of being a decent parent. Plenty of men out there wanting or even fighting for time with their kids to punish their ex, reduce child maintenance payments and/or keep up appearances (while delegating childcare to others, e.g. their parents).

I’d like to think if I ever split with DH, it would be 50/50. My son would want it that way. I’d hate it and it won’t ever happen (I hope!) but surely that’s fair? EOW is quite common but actually bonkers IMO but also dependent on how the child feels I guess?

No he doesn't.

He pays maintenance to reimbursement mum for half of what she has already spent on the children (In theory, it's usually much less then half the actual cost of keeping the child). She still has to cover her own expenses, plus her half (or more) of the childrens, so has just as much need to work.

CMS is between 12-19% of the non resident parents wage, depending on the number of children, and that if your lucky and the dad doesn't go self-employed to avoid paying. For many its £7/week. There no way the mother and children can live solely off that.

None of them pay enough to get all the picks ups drop offs etc done for them

But I don’t think anyone has found the perfect solution?

As it’s been discussed above, not all parents (or children) want 50/50, so the only other option is going to be one parent having more time than the other, and then arranging their lives to fit, with the other parent paying maintenance.

What other solution are people proposing?

I know... it was partially in jest.
Even significantly more doesn't make up for the whole life he misses out on with a child and the mental load of a residential parent

A lot of men pay significantly more than £10 per week

Nooooo..... that absolutely does not cover even 10% of the mental load

Imagine thinking a measly 10er a week covers it

No. The Dad pays maintenance in lieu of not having his children live with him most of the time...

The extra food, utilities etc that he would be paying for if his kids were 50:50 instead of a few days a month.

EOW is crazy low. He's basically socialising with his child for a few days of the month. That's not raising your child, or playing an active part in their life, is it? Imagine being without your child for over three weeks of the month. You would feel like you're not a parent.

How is it fair for the mum to juggle all the childcare, school runs and parenting around a full time job, while the dad does next to nothing because of his.

But the Dad pays maintenance in lieu of this?

Even if the mum was part time or a SAHM when together (which most arn't), almost all will be working full time once separated. How is it fair for the mum to juggle all the childcare, school runs and parenting around a full time job, while the dad does next to nothing because of his.

The amount a NRP pays in CMS is pitiful, and considerably less them the mum could be earning, even working for minimum wage. It might work for some couples to have one person work more and one do more childcare, but once both parties need to suport themselves, both parties also need to do childcare.

how many dads do 50:50 though when still married?

Very good point!

so dad has to work to support the family. I remember my dad leaving early, often getting home after I was in bed. Then often went into work Saturday mornings. He was a great dad and had really wanted kids, and even on that one day a week we had a great relationship.
so a separated dad taking the kids out every Sunday isn’t that much different. Only now we expect more, but mum can’t support herself on her pt work and needs cm, so again dad has to choose whether to work to provide financially and see less of his kids, or possibly leave them/their mum without adequate income.
for both parents to have 50:50, they both need an income which supports themselves, and they both need working hours which allows them to have the kids. That is unusual, so it usually falls back to dad earning, mum dealing with the kids.

This is EXACTLY how it is, in a together family, a man can be deemed a good father if he’s a good breadwinner, even if he doesn’t see a lot of the kids due to work, but the expectations are so much greater, and more unrealistic, when there’s a split

how many dads do 50:50 though when still married?

how many women, have kids and immediately drop their work hours or become a sahm, picking up nearly 100% of the child related activities.

so dad has to work to support the family. I remember my dad leaving early, often getting home after I was in bed. Then often went into work Saturday mornings. He was a great dad and had really wanted kids, and even on that one day a week we had a great relationship.

so a separated dad taking the kids out every Sunday isn’t that much different. Only now we expect more, but mum can’t support herself on her pt work and needs cm, so again dad has to choose whether to work to provide financially and see less of his kids, or possibly leave them/their mum without adequate income.

for both parents to have 50:50, they both need an income which supports themselves, and they both need working hours which allows them to have the kids. That is unusual, so it usually falls back to dad earning, mum dealing with the kids.

we’re back to the whole premise of women not giving up work and maintaining financial independence while dads take on more child related stuff.. So in a split they can support themselves, and dad is in a better place
parenting wise. Neither needs to give the other money, so they can share parenting.

Agreed.

My DSS actually is in one activity that my DH started him in on Thursdays when he was 5 as that was a day we always had him. He's 14 now and goes 3 times a week ( 2 training sessions and 1 match)... his mum gets him there on her 1 day and if she can't she'll ask my DH for help and we make it work because if he was with us full time, we'd have to do it. Similarly a few years ago she signed him up to a sport that occasionally has a game at the weekend when he's with us... we either take him or his stepdad will come get him. Granted it took a long time to become this flexible with co-parents who don't speak!

But I think a residential parent, even if wealthier, would get a bit peaved off doing all the school runs, all the extra curricular, all the friends parties, all the appointments etc and that's exactly how the non residential parent ends up being out of the loop!

You must be in an incredibly lucky and quite unusual situation if everything your child goes to is within 5 minutes of your house. One DC's school is a 15 minute walk (5 min drive), the other kids school is a 25 minutes drive, rainbows is at least 15 minutes drive, their sport is 10-15 minutes drive and their weekly music lessons are 30 minutes drive away.

I manage to get my DC to wherever they need to be 100% of the time, so it is a poor show if your brother can't manage 50%. Clubs etc, also don't have catchment areas, so he could book the kids into activities close to his house.

He's really NOT a fantastic father...

I think a lot depends on how the parenting has generally worked.

We are together but do our parenting in a fairly fixed routine - I do Mondays/Tuesdays (pick ups, drop offs, club runs, dinner, sick days/appointments those days), DH does Thursdays/Fridays, we alternate the Wednesdays. If we split up, I think our kids would feel most secure if we continued with that and alternated the weekends.

I suspect the OP's DH didn't really do any parenting when they were together so that would feel quite disruptive

If he is a normal parent I would expect 50/50.

if he is deadbeat never

if he claims to want them all the time but actually actually rather enjoys his space and not parenting all the time then he can do every other week and say he is a brilliant dad and society thinks this is ok and ‘normal’

Look, this seems to work for you , your DD and your ex. He pays up, he's consistent with the time he does spend with her and you have a good routine.

From my perspetive, I'd say he's less of a good dad and more of a really good dad-like figure or perhaps a great uncle. But at least he's not an actively bad dad. Children can do just fine with an active parent, and less active, but still reliable (within a specific context) other adults - especially fathers.

The reality is that she probably won't grow up close ot him. It's unlikely she's going to see him as her protector or confidant. When she gets older, she might not go to him for advice or help. But that doesn't mean they can't have a perfectly nice relationship that works for both of them, particularly if she has a good relationship with you. I know plenty of people who, as adults, care about their fathers and are happy to have them in their life but who don't see them as core family in the same way that they see their mother (aka the parent who actually brought them up). Mostly this is in the case of families where the parents were separated but frankly, is true in a few cases even where their parents are still together.