to think it’s time to ban dogs from shops and cafes?

So you try again next time, i must be very fortunate in never having had issue in any of the places I’ve been with dogs jumping all over my dinner.

I had an old man elbow my child out the way at football last week, he was pretty rude when I called him up on it - not sure banning old men from football will get much take up though.

And if the rare service dog is napping under the table out of sight when they come in? Are they doing a full reccy before sitting down. If they are fine, I stand corrected 🤷🏻‍♀️

Really this is a conversation to be had with your local business owners isn’t it, it’s not the entitlement of dog owners, they're Only
sticking to the rules set out, they don’t dictate them.

I have a dog but wouldn’t want someone
elses sniffing my dinner. If they did, I’d ask their owner to collect them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Last time I tried that I got a mouthful of abuse. The type of owner who lets their dog annoy others doesn’t seem to take well to being challenged.

Same with some parents letting their kids run around where it’s not really suitable.

I mean this is just bizarre argument isn’t it.

children might come off and sneeze on me while I’m eating if they’re allowed in a pub 🤷🏻‍♀️ if they did I’d ask their carer to collect them. I have a dog but wouldn’t want someone
elses sniffing my dinner. If they did, I’d ask their owner to collect them 🤷🏻‍♀️

no cafe or pub has the motto - come in and let other dogs trample on you, don’t call it out though. You, as an adult and paying customer, are perfectly entitled not to be encroached on. What you’re not entitled to do is dictate who the establishment permits entry to. That’s all 🤷🏻‍♀️

I assume the person who’s seriously allergic would have to leave if a dog came in. Which they may be fine doing when it’s a (rare) service dog, but not if it’s someone’s pet.

But again, what is wrong with compromise, I could still to pubs that I used to go to if there are zones for dogs and people that want to sort away from dogs. I don't and many others don't really need to avoid these places altogether if a bit of consideration happened. All the pubs that are in my city and some restaurants, John Lewis, many cafes are all dog overwhelmed they weren't before COVID. So far supermarkets aren't, I think because of HSE rules but even in Marks food hall i saw a dog in there, TBF to Marks they were asked to take the dog out straight away.

Of course it’s more possible, but if jus one dog stops you breathing and there’s a possibility of that dog occurring anywhere, it’s a risk you have to consider surely?

If you’re in a cafe and ‘just one dog’ comes in and it’s a service dog, fine. But if ‘just one dog’ comes in and it’s just someone’s pet cockapoo? Not fine?

I give up.

Small town in Sussex in my case. Don’t want to be any more specific than that, as I’m sure you’ll appreciate.

That's the point though dogs dominate every space now so your choices are very limited. I appreciate that this is great news for dog owners like you who prefer that but other people, even dog owners may think it is better in life to find compromise and try accommodate as many people as possible. Our local pub is considering zoning their pub but it is quite big so can be done. Obviously, if the establishment is too small and they prefer dogs and their owners as the main customer base then that would have to be ruled out by someone like me or even someone who just doesn't want to eat a roast dinner with a dog on a chair behind them curious to eat their food, some people don't like that, it doesn't mean they don't like dogs. I have neighbour with a beautiful sheep dog, he is so well trained and his owner would never have him on a seat eating at the table.

Where are these mystical places where dogs are allowed absolutely everywhere and roam free? I travel widely through the UK (with dogs) and have to plan very carefully to ensure we’re all allowed!

(Also, @Goldenbear , I may dislike the smell of fish, but shellfish may actually kill me, so I’m not being flippant. Maybe I just don’t assume it’s someone else’s responsibility to provide what I need.)

Of course not but if being in proximity to one can kill you, you’d be stuffed if a service dog was sleeping under the table and you didn’t notice it, or if it came in after you. I understand you’re not going to be unable to find a cafe without a service dog, but if the risk is that great, you couldn’t risk one arriving surely?

It’s the same where I live - I don’t think there’s a single coffee shop in my local town that doesn’t allow dogs.

I don’t actually mind as long as they’re well-behaved (but an increasing number aren’t, unfortunately), but anyone with allergies / phobias wouldn’t be able to go for a coffee in that town at all.

The argument about service dogs doesn’t really stack up, as there aren’t anywhere near as many service dogs as pet dogs. If only service dogs were allowed, then it would be extremely unlikely to find one in every cafe. I can’t remember the last time I saw a service dog - other than a couple of chihuahuas with service dog vests having a go at every other dog that walked past… (I am not convinced they were genuine service dogs, which of course doesn’t help)

I've only seen one service dog in about 5 years. Obviously, if you open up everywhere to dogs, the likelihood of being wheezy and perhaps experiencing an asthma attack is very much more possible. Service dogs are just not that regular an occurrence for this to be life limiting, dogs everywhere, with no zones for those who can't be or don't want to be near them is!

That should read, if inclusive environments were considered where I live, that would be a compromise but they aren't, everywhere is set up for the dog owners and their needs.

Every single establishment in your local area allows dogs? Blimey.

I dont think you’ve the use of compromise. Dog owners can’t just bowl int any establishment and demand they accommodate their dog. They have to choose places that have decided they’ll allow dogs. You on the other hand, have the freedom to choose from any establishment that allows humans - you can discount those you don’t like (be that for dog based reasons or anything else). But you have the choice to do that becuase you are allowed everywhere, dogs are not.

None of that takes away from the fact that service dogs are allowed everywhere and have been for decades, so dogs being in spaces you might also be in is not a new issue.

Well no, that's the point there is no compromise, there is no imaginative thinking on this, if there was inclusive environments would be considered where I live everywhere is set up for dogs and their owners.

Equally, your dislike for the smell of fish is not comparable to not being able to breath!

Is it selfish? If someone has life threatening allergies they are likely to not want to risk eating somewhere that can’t guarantee to keep them alive?

if someone has life threatening dog induced asthma, they’re likely not to be able to frequent public spaces as service dogs are allowed everywhere by law.

where’s my selfishness in either of those statements.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think assistance dogs are more important to protect in law than people’s allergies/illnesses. I think it’s unlikely we can ever ban all allergens/illnesses inducers from all environments so it might be hard to enforce?

I’ve not placed any lack of value on someone’s suffering from asthma etc, but the reality at present is in the UK service dogs go anywhere and your asthma isn’t going to be able to distinguish between employed and unemployed dogs, so from a logical thinking perspective- if a cafe owner HAS to permit service dogs, there’s no additional risk by permitting non service dogs, if it increases their custom - or if the just really love looking at dogs.

Should people take their cats and rabbits with them everywhere if not why not?

Don’t come to Whitstable you might have a conniption, regularly meet a huge bunny, in his harness and lead, on our early morning beach walk.
Anyway, I’m off for a walk in the sun and a lovely roast dinner, with DH and our gorgeous golden retriever. I can tick off the bingo card (except the bored bit, he definitely isn’t bored) so I feel vindicated, cheers. 🍻

You’re right, and dog owners compromise by going into dog friendly places. Which are still fewer than those that don’t allow dogs.

But there are more dog friendly places than there used to be, so people who want dog free have to put a teensy bit of effort into finding them, and it seems to drive them into derangement (on this thread, anyway).

The smell of cooked fish makes me heave, but I wouldn’t demand that a cafe/restaurant stops serving it. I’d be laughed into next week.

Oops, deaf not "death".

I mean your response is pretty selfish really. Maybe look at whether your obdurate thinking on people with allergies being isolated is fair and reasonable.

I have only ever seen one service dog in the last decade, for a death teacher at school.

Eh? I literally described the wheezing and asthma brought about by being too close to a dog. I think about inclusivity rather than along extremes as personally I don't think compromise is a bad thing.

So this isn’t about your allergy. But about people not having their dogs under control and the fact you don’t like dogs?

Picnic