Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

Neither. I would just think yeah, clearly something really difficult has gone on for it to end in estrangement. But I wouldn't apportion blame or even suspect one way or another. Estrangement is really quite common in families, it's not a big unusual thing.

I think it can be either. But because children find it very very difficult to give up on trying to get their parent to love them, the ones who go no contact at a younger age or more easily are more likely to be entitled/spoilt. The ones who do it much later on after years of turmoil are more likely to have abusive parents. Then of course there is parental alienation/family scapegoating which is usually caused by the other spouse on a separation/divorce. Those are the three main situations that come to mind but this is of course a simplistic, generalistic answer and there will be plenty of cases that don't fit those patterns.

I think it depends and that it is difficult to tell. I think lots of people go through a stage of blaming their parents for stuff and that eventually most people come out the other side of that and perhaps forgive their parents their short comings and appreciate the good things they did. I think sometimes today people take quite a black and white view and so cut their parents off, go low or no contact even if this is quite an extreme reaction. In other cases there is genuine abused and good reason for cutting off contact.

Unless I had a lot of privileged information I wouldn't know which of the above it was.

My mother is abusive

If she was a boyfriend of mine,you'd be asking why the hell I stayed with him

But shes my mother and im meant to stick around for her abuse as 'shes still your mother'

On the surface,shes very charming,loveable,generous and would do anything for anyone,always there with good advice and help

Scratch that surface and shes pure evil

I tried for many years to 'be better','be the dd she would be proud of' and I tied myself into knots for her-nothing was good enough,no matter what I did,she'd find something to pick on

Shes tried on many occasions (especially now im nc) to pull me down and drag me to hell

It was the most painful thing I've ever done-to admit she not only didnt love me,but she really hated me and would have dined out on it if id died

I cant go back to my home town as ill be spotted by some fool who will fall over themselves to tell her that I've been there and so the hate and bile starts up again (on the surface its all 'oh was she?but i get the hate afterwards)

Shes turned a lot of people against me-people who have known me for years,my friends,colleagues,strangers and family-they swallow her bollocks as they all know they'll be next so gloss over her actions

Her own mother was even more evil-she makes rose west look like an angel (the only reason she didnt manage to murder anyone,is she didnt get a chance) and my mother prides herself shes 'done better in life and for her children'

She hasn't,shes picked up the batton and ran with it

Trigger warning
About 11 years ago,I was raped

She found out (I was nc by this point) and dined out on this gossip and made sure she got some free lunches out of it with people who just wanted the gossip

She didnt know the 'finer' details so made them up-making me out to be 'the slag that deserved it'

One 'normal' friend asked her what she was doing to support me as I must have been going through hell

My mother laughed 'oh k,she didnt notice she HAD been raped until the cheque bounced!hahahaha!'

She then tried to get in touch with my rapist to support him (thankfully he knew batshit when he saw it and told her to go away in no soft words)

She then tried to show up to support him at court and cheered when he was found 'not guilty'

She then ran round,scoffing more free lunches and filling in her friends on the details while laughing at me

That's one of the many,many reasons why im nc and if anyone wants to judge me for it,feel free

The people who know me,the ones that love me,the ones who support me are the ones that matter

The rest dont pay my rent so they dont matter

The innate instinct of a child is to be close to their parent. You have to question how bad a parent has to be for a child (whether young or older) to go against that.

back in the day you were more likely to just put up with your parents whether they were nice / good or not

It used to be much easier to move away and just not really keep in touch with someone without it being a particularly big deal. Phones calls were expensive, letters took time to write etc. Nowadays, you can't just drop to that level of contact without it being very obvious.

Plus, isn't it a good thing that people no longer feel that they have to put up with bad behaviour just because they are related to the person behaving badly? Back in the day, for example, we told wives they had to put up with their husbands because they were married, no matter how awful they were, but no one thinks that any more. Why are parents any different?

I keep an open mind because I know from my own family dynamic, things are rarely black and white. I have a 90 year old friend who became estranged from her adult son due to him becoming a drug addict and stealing things from her, and I have spoken to her son myself who has said himself what she said is true. I know someone els who is 60 who estranged from her adult children because they came out as gay. I didn’t pursue that friendship because I don’t want to be friends with someone who should cut their own child off for being a lesbian.

My dh is estranged from his father, fil is 70 and dh is 50 and there’s very complex and sad reasons for this, sometimes things are so complicated it’s hard to explain to strangers so I try and not make assumptions or judge.

Your logic fails in my case...I am an only child and estranged from my mother for very good reasons that don't need anyone else to validate them!

If a parent was estranged from one or an only child, I would just assume it was a personality clash and sad but no specific blame (unless I had other information). If a parent was estranged from two or more children, I would assume the parent played a larger role.

Agree with all of this.
There's a lot of people out there who think that because you are related to someone, you are entitled to behave in however way you see fit and still be entitled to that person's company. If my best friend was otherwise wonderful, but made constant comments about my weight, or my child's weight, I wouldnt have her in my life. Yet constant weight comments from parents would by most people's standards not be 'enough' to cut a parent out. Anything that means you dont enjoy spending time with that person is a good enough reason - just because a particular combination of people had sex doesnt entitle someone to your company for eternity.

I’m estranged from my 22 year old daughter and as I’m a young mum and most of my friends have young children I do feel their judgement towards me. However, my friends who have older children are much more understanding and there is a knowing nod.

My situation is complicated and I hope, it’s not forever but who knows?

I have a lot of grace and understanding for both sides when they disclose similar relationships.

My two cousins are estranged/low contact with both my auntie and uncle (who are separated but still married and living at different ends of the same house).

From my point if view, and having met all of them at various occasions, they are all in some way to blame. The parents are overbearing, smothering and micromanaging, and the adult kids are spoilt, selfish and bratty.

In my experience it’s the parents. The pattern seems to be those who had kids when young in the 70s - that has lead to issues like divorce or self focused behaviour. So I have some sympathy for being of a different generation - perhaps unfulfilled dreams, poor marriages etc but yes it has been the parents really.

I can’t think of a single time it’s been the adult kids fault. Even the people I know who had drug issues or been selfish etc seem to have supportive parents.

My reaction would be that it is none of my business!.

I think that people who cut off a relative usually have good reasons for it and there is no need for them to justify themselves.

I also believe that the fact that you are related to someone does not mean that:

• you need to keep them in your life at all cost
• you necessarily have anything in common with them or automatically like them.

I think it is good that we are more open about this and that there growing understanding that a toxic/uncaring/abusive relative can be kicked out of your life.

I never understood while people will (rightly) praise someone for leaving a toxic partner or kicking a joxic friend out of their life but still seem to think that you can't do that with a toxic parent, sibling and so on and that they should be tolerated.

To me common sense says that we should stay away from people who cause us harm and distress, full stop.

I would think there's a story there.

Would not jump to conclusions either way.

This would be my thought as well.

I dated a man for a while who was estranged from his parents and his sister. I didn't really have any judgment on that because if they had a difficult childhood it would make sense that he might want to distance himself from his entire family. But then I discovered that he was also estranged from his teenage children, and I began to think that maybe the problem was him.

Having read some posts on the Gransnet estrangement forum, I'd be inclined to think that the parents are at fault - the lack of introspection there is astounding!

I wouldn’t think either without knowing the details . I do think that nowadays with so much emphasis on mental health / counselling and indeed having to find a reason for anything and everything that has ever happened to you that there will be increasing numbers of estranged families whereas back in the day you were more likely to just put up with your parents whether they were nice / good or not .I have adult children and don’t have issues with them and as we are still a close family and they actively choose to spend time with us I assume they don’t have issues with us .

I tend to nod politely, and avoid any chances somebody might take to revisit the subject.

I care less about who did wrong, when, why & how in their life than I do about my avoidance of picking at a now well healed scar.

Shit happens. Even the best parent can poorly resist the temptation to hurt, no matter the cost, in their darkest of moments. Even a fairly crap parent can be blamed well beyond the genuine limits of their failures.

The best outcome for all involved is individuals putting down a burden that is not their to carry. Holding themselves accountable where it was a burden they created. And a lot of forgiveness, that will come when it is good and ready, unforced. Which does not necessarily result in being reunited. Sometimes that is not possible. I can’t help anybody with that because it is an enormous task, and I need to stay focused on making sure my own task does not come undone by poking at it too much.

As someone who’s dad managed to convince anyone who’d listen that I’d abandoned him and was a terrible, heartless daughter (I used to call him once a week, help organise his housing, visit him at least four times per year - much more at points when he was struggling - when I lived the other side of the country with a FT job and family! On top of also being the support and main contact for my disabled sister) I believe absolutely nothing from anyone! If you’d met any of my dad’s brothers and sisters you’d have thought I was the most selfish person alive 😂

I also realise this subject obviously triggers some memories for me and perhaps I need more therapy 😳

And while it’s possible both children are entitled narcissists and the parent is a saint, you do have to wonder how they both ended up like that if they had exemplary parenting.

This precisely ^^ neither is closer to my view.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by your comment? Are you saying that a child is as likely to be entitled as a parent is to be narcisstic?

I'm not sure I believe that people who are entitled cut off relatives - they tend to need them to be at their beck and call, whether practically or financially. Actually, a bit like narcissists.

From personal experience, it depends how honest people are 🤷🏻‍♀️

'M 51. I've been nc with my mum for 14 years.

She would tell you that it's because I'm an intellectual snob. I have a first class degree and a masters and a professional career and think I'm better than her (she was a secretary) and her partner (a lorry driver). She's done nothing wrong. My sibling is also nc but that's because I've influenced him...

I know this is what she tells people because someone in the family told me it was the reason she'd given them and they told me to grow up.

The actual reason is that she was a safeguarding risk to my children. The police and SS were involved and I was told that continued contact would result in a S47 enquiry and possible removal of my children.

I have the Initial Assessment paperwork to prove it but never will be able to because I'm not allowed to tell people for legal reasons, which means that not even my children know.

So I wouldn't judge anyone who told me they were estranged from parents or vice versa or even ask why because it's rarely a happy tale and people are entitled to privacy.

I think narcissism and entitlement are actually just as common.