Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

How did it feel to you as a child to see your mother criticised in front of you?

It hurts so much, not seeing your child. And the guilt is huge, as my child won't see my husband either, knowing it's on me.

possibly true, but we just tolerated things more, tried to navigate it
Cutting parents off comes with it's own set of problems, especially when there are siblings that do talk to them.
It was abit if a joke when we went round to my granny's sometimes. She was quite critical and my mum used to say we won't stop long.
She had good points too though, most people do. My mum would never have cut her off.
It's very complicated.

Sometimes this ‘doormat’ or ‘marshmallow’ parenting is lazy and self serving to the parent.

It’s hard work to keep boundaries and put in consequences / discipline - these are essential for developing children into a functioning adults. Not to do so is negligent and leaving your DCs vulnerable. Counterintuitively it doesnt engender respect for the parent because the DC doesn’t feel emotionally safe / held.

Sorry but I don’t buy this. People don’t turn into monsters because their parent is too generous and loving. There are probably things you don’t know. And their father (or his absence) would also play a part.

you don’t know the rest of her behaviour towards her daughters do you? maybe they get weekly drunk phone calling rants at 2AM, maybe she frequently made untrue comments about other people in their life to try draw a wedge between them and other people, there could be a whole host of toxic behaviour you have no idea about. yes potentially you are right but maybe they also had good reason. a mother can be financially supportive but also emotionally manipulative and use it as a weapon to guilt etc

That might be how it looks from the outside with my auntie, but
So much happened with my cousin growing up, actually the bloody least she could do was re-Mortgage her house to buy my cousin a home

Isn’t it obvious? As @Burntt says, the mother presumably meant terribly well, but the way she brought up her children turned them into spoilt, self-centred monsters. Sometimes good intentions have negative consequences.

This is so sad to read, it sounds as if she tried her best and the daughters somehow aren’t big-hearted enough to understand this. Or perhaps things were said or happened behind closed doors that others are not party to.

I was on a 10hr flight with my 15 month old once, and was sat next to the most lovely woman, she helped me no end, we chatted the whole flight. Towards the end she mentioned that her 3 children don't speak to her. I couldn't believe it - she seemed so nice. But it did make me wonder what she did, why would ALL 3 got no contact. I definitely assumed it was her and not them, even though she seemed so lovely.

Agree.

I also think that plenty of family members out there are LC without the other realising because there is no dramatic outburst or argument, just an instance of being fed up and quietly distancing; also there are the types who will judge those distancing and want to make excuses for the other party and say “they’re your xyz” knowing if it was anyone that wasn’t family that treated them badly, been disrespectful for years, snide/shi**y comments, they would have told them where to go and drop them much sooner.

Blood imo doesn’t make you family, it makes you related.

I wouldn't think anything. Parents and adult children are just people - some get on well; some don't. There is far too much pressure to have a "perfect "relationship, and most of us don't so it's not about blame or fault on either side.

Where was their DF in all of this?

I am no contact with my father, it’s been maybe two years, or more now, it happened late, I’m 55 now.

If you spoke to my father, he’d say, I didn’t go and visit him often enough. Actually, knowing my dad well, mine and my sisters name can’t be mentioned in the house. Same as his own mothers and siblings. He is non contact with most of his family. He actually went no contact with me, but, I told him for once what I thought and I knew that would be the end.

If you were to ask me, I’d say he was a physically abusive parent, we weren’t injured, but, there was a cane by his chair, or he used hands to beat, whatever. He had affairs until my mum left so he settled with the woman he was having an affair with at the time, who got pregnant, and is a real piece of work, jealous to the nth degree. Threatened me with a knife etc. There’s loads more, mainly different political views, jealousy, he hated I did well, thought I shouldn’t have help from the state to work as a hard of hearing person, constantly trying to rile me up by saying racist things he knew as a Social Worker were against my values and principles. That is why I hardly visited. In the 15 years I’ve lived in my house he has been inside it twice. When my son died ten years ago, he didn’t even know where I lived! Oh, and the weekend before my son died my dad said he was no longer welcome in his house, alongside my daughter, because they didn’t visit him. He has a belief he has to do nothing, no visits, or calls, nothing!

Anyway, so you can see it depends on perspective he definitely feels aggrieved, that I am the wrongdoer! Unless you heard both sides it would be difficult for you to know what really happened!

I knew someone who’s two dd cur her off. I was friends with one dd growing up so spent a lot of time in their house. She lived for those girls, worked multiple low income jobs for them, never let a new partner move in, they always had the last eat stuff they wanted. Believed they could do no wrong and argued with school if they said dd had done something, I remember my friend getting out of a detention she deserves because her mum believed her lies about it.

she took out a second mortgage on her home to lend the other dd who never paid it back. Then to make it fair took out a loan for her younger dd when asked because she wanted thousands of pounds too.

she turned those girls into spoiled nasty people who then cut her off when she was no longer of use to them. Whose fault is it? Its definitely the children are horrible people but they were products of the way she raised them

Key bits of this I think are true.

There is an element of truth to this with me. “my way or the highway” type people.

Also, I think this is true of many people, both the child and the parent. None of us are without flaws. the relationship with the mother has always been difficult, since early childhood and the mother was no doubt flawed. I genuinely think it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other in both cases - these were difficult children with mothers who struggled to cope and to treat them the same as their more easy-going siblings when they acted up and their siblings didn’t.

And I KNOW this is also true of me. dating/looking for a romantic partner I’d avoid people whose family relationships are this difficult. They are not easy people to get along with I am not an easy person to be with.

Being older I have the benefit of hindsight. I can see that although my parents were both flawed, one was more a victim of their own early life experiences, whereas the other really was just selfish. I wish I'd done things differently but it's too late now.

Having been estranged from both of my parents (one for 25 years, one for 5 years), I can say that I know in my case, that one of my parents deserved it, whereas with the other, I was at least equally to blame.

Prior to my parents deaths, I was more on the 'Meh, they must have been really bad.' side, but now, with regretful hindsight, I know it isn't always that simple.

Some people are shit parents but sometimes the issue is a lot more complex. And no one on the outside can know this. Even the individuals concerned don't really understand the complex interplay of issues involved.

On the topic of one child being estranged being more likely to be the child's problem, I'd say that although it could be more likely, it's not always the case. My partner has 3 siblings. They are the only one of the 4 to go low to no contact with the parent and let me tell you, there is a very long list of reasons. The siblings aren't close to my partner either so I couldn't say why they don't have as much of a problem with the parent's behaviours (although at a fairly recent wedding one of them made some fairly scathing comments about the parent in a speech and I'm unsure whether the parent picked up on it or not... So I'm inclined to think that, although aware of it, the others just have a higher threshold for putting up the fuckery and keeping the parent around). Perhaps the others weren't subjected to the abuse my partner was (being the eldest) or perhaps they just don't hold the parent as accountable? I find it interesting reading a comment about the fact that it's none of anyone's business and shouldn't affect the relationship that you have with a person if their children have gone nc. Personally, if I knew they had gone nc because of abuse, I wouldn't want to associate with the parent even if they were as nice as pie to me. I assume this is why predators often get a free pass, because people are often happy to turn a blind eye so long as its not affected them directly. Sad.

The thing is, some people aren’t worthy of respect. Being family doesn’t change that. I’m a firm believer of respect is earned , not inherited.

Have you ever met a parent who cut off their own DC? Kicking DC out and then going NC with the child, leaving the child sobbing and in tears.

I know two people well who are/were estranged from their mothers as older adults. They are both good, but immensely difficult “my way or the highway” type people. In both cases the relationship with the mother has always been difficult, since early childhood and the mother was no doubt flawed. I genuinely think it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other in both cases - these were difficult children with mothers who struggled to cope and to treat them the same as their more easy-going siblings when they acted up and their siblings didn’t. The similarities are striking.
If I were dating/looking for a romantic partner I’d avoid people whose family relationships are this difficult. They are not easy people to get along with and they like control.

I wouldn't assume either way.
Without knowing the reasons (which could be multiple and complex) it's impossible to form an opinion surely?

And I think what you are doing is breaking the intergenerational trauma. In a healthy situation you would have a parent supportive of your motherhood who would also play an important role as a grandparent. You have been robbed already of a childhood where your emotional development was optimised and prioritised - now you are faced with short changing your own child if you stay enmeshed with someone you drains your finite emotional energy and time and wrecks your peace - which means you can’t be your best for your child. I have spent some time at Al Anon and they always encourage ‘detach with love’ - that doesnt necessarily mean NC - it can mean just in your head - they never support everyone going down with the ship. We have to protect the next generation and we are often starting off hindered ourselves from our deficient childhood and lack of family support as new parents - so we can’t then open ourselves up to abuse, derailment etc as it’s our own children who will then lose if we are not centred and rested and focused on them.

I have 3 adult children in their 30s and 1 has decided to be NC with me. The other two have decided to go NC with her - as have a big chunk of the extended family.

What do people think? That she's a weirdo who's read too much online and has been negatively influenced. She's into a lot of the wellness and Andrew Tate stuff. Apparently, I was an abusive mother because I didn't give her a freshly laundered school skirt and school jumper every day. Obviously, it's just a massive coincidence that she went NC with me when she owed me £1000s.

In other words, I don't generally just accept NC as a reasonable response and it's up to that person. I wouldn't pry, but I also wouldn't just assume that they were in the right.

I’d reserve judgement until I had a bit more of a grasp on the situation. I was nc with my father from the age of about 12 until his death in 2017. He was not a nice man. I understand he would blame my mum for turning me against him, and because he was very convincing, I’m sure people believed him. It bore no resemblance to the truth though.

Having said that, I’m also aware of a woman whose daughter has cut contact with her. I don’t want to go into details because it’s a very specific set of circumstances but the mum is without blame.