Page 5 | Aibu to hate Michael Gove?

merrycola · 2026-04-06T20:18:14+00:00

AIBU to hate Michael Gove for single-handedly creating the “overdiagnosis” crisis he’s now nowhere near enough to answer for? Because let’s connect the dots. He made the curriculum harder, narrower, and more rigid. Ofsted built an inspection framework around it that treats children like data points. And now — years later — we’ve got CAMHS referrals through the roof, school avoidance at record levels, exclusion rates climbing, teachers quitting in droves, and a growing media narrative that too many children are being diagnosed and parents are being pushy. But nobody seems to want to say the obvious thing: we didn’t suddenly produce a generation of broken children. We built a system that broke the environment around them and then pathologised the ones who couldn’t cope. The strategies that actually help — clear instructions, sensory breaks, mutual respect, not shouting — aren’t special needs strategies. They’re just good teaching. But there’s no time for good teaching when you’re trying to force a curriculum designed by a man who apparently thinks childhood is an inefficiency to be optimised. And here’s what really gets me. Every education secretary since could have undone it. But none of them have, because reversing course would mean admitting the whole framework was wrong and that it’s been harming children for over a decade. So instead we get headlines about overdiagnosis and parents wanting labels for benefits, while the man who lit the match is off doing whatever Michael Gove does now. We didn’t get an overdiagnosis crisis. We got a system that can’t admit it failed, so it diagnosed the kids instead.

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:33

Nepmarthiturn · 07/04/2026 11:25

I’d actually really like the teachers on this thread to answer what they are doing in terms of the open consultation to make these points to the education secretary, i.e.

that none of her “proposals” address the proven harm being caused to this specific subset of children (academically able autistic children) by the education system, who make up the vast majority of children who develop such severe mental health problems because the state school environment with 30 children per class and constant disruptive behaviour means that they often cannot access education at all, in breach of the legal requirement to provide all children with an education;
that there are NO state schools (mainstream or SEN) that meet these children’s needs so they are forced into environments that have been proven to cause them significant harm with lifelong effects on their life outcomes and health, and on what basis she thinks it is acceptable to continue to refuse to set up ANY appropriate schools for them and pretend these children don’t exist.

There is not a SINGLE mainstream state school in the entire country as far as I am aware (based on consulting SEN lawyers and advocates and the NAS and searching the schools databases) for academically gifted autistic children.

Quite happy to take the tax money from this one that survived though (although only just). Just apparently it is unreasonable for me to expect the state to use some of it to provide a school my children can attend without being subjected to an environment that everyone agrees is harmful to them. Let alone actually learn to their potential.

Given how the state school system has trashed the mental health of my bright, kind, engaged, creative autistic children before they’ve even reached an age in double figures I am terrified for what is to come for them in teenage years if they continue to be forced into an environment that makes them so distressed where they learn nothing anyway. What a stupid waste of life chances and talent and childhood and probably future tax revenues, as well.

I would like to know: Are any teachers actually speaking up for these children in the “consultation” process and lobbying for appropriate schools for them to be established finally?

Or are you all quite happy to see them shoved out of classrooms into “support hubs” with the precise children that make school impossible for them already because those children are disruptive and violent, where they will receive little subject-specialist teaching at all and have their disabilities highlighted to everyone and feel punished for being autistic, and have their academic needs entirely ignored?

Show quote history

Teachers can’t say what they think because they’ll be bullied out. I am incredibly outspoken. Do you think my ex head liked being told he’d sold out to the Tory man and was harming 6 year olds by making them miss play time to catch up on phonics?
i don’t teach anymore. That’s why I can speak freely now

OP posts:

ElBandito · 07/04/2026 11:33

I do think education, certainly at primary level, needs to change. And I have very academic children.

I also think there a risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Phonics isn't a bad thing. In my kids school it was about 20 minutes a day, that's fine.
Knowing your times tables isn't a bad thing, 20 minutes a day. That's fine, there's still plenty of time in the day for everything else.

Fronted adverbials, yeah, not so fine!

I also believe having a national curriculum is great and holding teachers to some standards is important. Education before the national curriculum was fairly haphazard and varied tremendously.

Nepmarthiturn · 07/04/2026 11:31

IAmJustATeacherWhatDoIKnowAboutAnything · 07/04/2026 11:01

One reason my children often cannot go to school (aside from learning little when they are there and getting so overwhelmed by the noise and boredom that they often have to come home) is because absolutely nothing is done about violence and disgusting behaviour like children throwing furniture across the classroom or hitting people. Why should they have to tolerate that when if someone did that to me at work they’d be fired and arrested?

I wholeheartedly agree.

We report it to SLT and nothing is done. Nothing is put in place. There are limited consequences.

As class teachers, our capacity to deal with it is limited. I can dock 5-10 mins of breaktime (depending on severity of behaviour) and call parents. That's all.

But when we refer it to SLT, we are just told to 'monitor the situation' and told to build better relationships so that the children want to behave for us.

We are monitoring it. We are reporting it. We are even often aware of exactly why it is happening but there is nothing we can do to make the changes that might stop it from happening again because those decisions are not ours to make or are related to factors beyond our control (eg home environment).

There is often not even a TA to support so we can diffuse/de-escalate a sitiation and if we are 'proactive' (ie call SLT when we can tell a child is 'bubbling'), the response is inconsistent or we are told everything is 'fine' until it isn't 5 mins later.

Absolutely appalling. I feel so sorry for the teachers and am so sorry to hear how it is for you. I don’t know how teachers cope. Their hands seem to be tied to implement appropriate consequences if the parents will not and protect the children who DO want to learn.

My son’s wonderful teacher - the best he has ever had - quit his job this term. And this idiotic “Education Secretary” seems intent on making everything worse.

ACIGC · 07/04/2026 11:30

Cloop · 06/04/2026 21:23

Yep. Some of what I used to teach in Y5 is now Y3. The curriculum is fully accessible to about the top 20% of children only. Occasionally we do an easier lesson in maths (e.g. co-ordinates in Y4 is pretty achievable for most) and the improved behaviour, attitudes and happiness of the entire class is really evident. I fear there's no way back now though. The curriculum can't be seen to be 'dumbed down'.

When did this shift start? I left teaching in 2012 but remember in my last job being told I couldn't use GCSE papers from a few years prior as exam prep "because that's A-level standard now" so it feels like we must have gone backwards and then forwards again.

RishiSunak · 07/04/2026 11:28

That's a shame as he used to speak mostly highy of you in Cabinet Meetings.

Nepmarthiturn · 07/04/2026 11:25

Nepmarthiturn · 07/04/2026 10:50

As someone who went through school in the 1980s and 1990s with undiagnosed autism and ADHD and another autistic sibling also undiagnosed I can verify that these conditions did indeed exist at that time. They were just ignored and we were punished for them. Bullying was rife. It was utter hell.

The curriculum was boring and far too easy then, as well. And the same problem of shoving all kids into a one-size-fits all school regardless of ability.

I think the thing that has shocked me is that ignorance is no longer an excuse. Many school staff have outdated “opinions” about these conditions still and woefully little knowledge, receiving what little “training” they have on it from equally clueless LA staff (!) who give them information which is years out of date and long-debunked by academic research. I had hoped that by now schools might be better for autistic children but they are not, they are utterly hellish still.

Being academically bright and autistic means there are literally no state schools at all that provide for your needs, hence this group being - per the research I posted above - by far the largest group of children who end up receiving little to no education and developing severe mental health difficulties as a direct result of school.

SEN schools aren’t appropriate for children like mine (this is what the SEN schools and LA have confirmed) because they can’t meet their academic needs and they’d have no peer group AND those schools are now largely populated by children with behavioural problems who are the ones that make school impossible for them with loud, unpredictable, disruptive or violent behaviour. Mainstream state schools state that they cannot meet their academic needs AND can’t provide an environment in which they can learn because they need smaller classes and a calm environment, so they are doubly discriminated against.

Where are kids like this meant to go to get an adequate education? I have paid a large amount of tax for many years and think it’s reasonable to expect my children to be able to go to school. They are highly intelligent and not disruptive at all, love learning and were so enthusiastic when they started school, and yet the state provides NO educational establishment in which they can learn and has caused two previously happy children to develop severe mental health difficulties during their first years of primary school and now hate and dread school. I am furious about it and see no proposal from any political party to do anything about this despite copious evidence like the study I posted above which shows that they are far from alone in this regard.

Show quote history

I’d actually really like the teachers on this thread to answer what they are doing in terms of the open consultation to make these points to the education secretary, i.e.

that none of her “proposals” address the proven harm being caused to this specific subset of children (academically able autistic children) by the education system, who make up the vast majority of children who develop such severe mental health problems because the state school environment with 30 children per class and constant disruptive behaviour means that they often cannot access education at all, in breach of the legal requirement to provide all children with an education;
that there are NO state schools (mainstream or SEN) that meet these children’s needs so they are forced into environments that have been proven to cause them significant harm with lifelong effects on their life outcomes and health, and on what basis she thinks it is acceptable to continue to refuse to set up ANY appropriate schools for them and pretend these children don’t exist.

There is not a SINGLE mainstream state school in the entire country as far as I am aware (based on consulting SEN lawyers and advocates and the NAS and searching the schools databases) for academically gifted autistic children.

Quite happy to take the tax money from this one that survived though (although only just). Just apparently it is unreasonable for me to expect the state to use some of it to provide a school my children can attend without being subjected to an environment that everyone agrees is harmful to them. Let alone actually learn to their potential.

Given how the state school system has trashed the mental health of my bright, kind, engaged, creative autistic children before they’ve even reached an age in double figures I am terrified for what is to come for them in teenage years if they continue to be forced into an environment that makes them so distressed where they learn nothing anyway. What a stupid waste of life chances and talent and childhood and probably future tax revenues, as well.

I would like to know: Are any teachers actually speaking up for these children in the “consultation” process and lobbying for appropriate schools for them to be established finally?

Or are you all quite happy to see them shoved out of classrooms into “support hubs” with the precise children that make school impossible for them already because those children are disruptive and violent, where they will receive little subject-specialist teaching at all and have their disabilities highlighted to everyone and feel punished for being autistic, and have their academic needs entirely ignored?

cardibach · 07/04/2026 11:23

malware · 07/04/2026 00:29

Most of us are just much, much less articulate than this. Here's the evidence to me. (I am an AI product manager, so I spend a lot of time looking at this stuff):

Use of weapons-grade punctuation - most tell-tale here is the em-dash. But also the Oxford comma and the colon. I'd be surprised if you find another post using the colon like that here. It's just a bit sophisticated for everyday writing.
That teacher-like, I-am-the-expert-walking-you-though-this ("let’s connect the dots.") which makes it sound like a TED talk.
The sheer variety of sentence length and connectors
Light use of simile/metaphor is unusual (although having said that I now see I have used a metaphor)
The layering of desciptions/adjectives. Little groups of 3. I mean, again, who does that?
It is all very cerebral, an intellectual argument. Each point so carefully crafted and simply explained. So persuasive. 8)The emotions are so very refined, restrained and appropriate that it's not quite real. Most people run a bit messier than this, I think
Use of final, beautifully succinct 2 sentence summarisation of whole of the argument is a real tell.
But most of all, it is a very persuasive & well-crafted piece of writing, beyond the abilities of most of us but I think that is at odds with a somewhat simplistic premise.

I am far, far from being a Michael Gove fan. Fronted adverbials bring me out in hives. But there is no consideration here given to many other factors that could influence outcomes for our children: social media, Covid, changing social and family patterns, lack of effective sanction on children, growing gaps between rich and poor. If you could write this well, I think your argument would be more nuanced.

Show quote history

So, essentially it’s what the Gove curriculum (and the Welsh curriculum influenced by it) forces you to teach for writing? Pretty much all those things are either mentioned in the paperwork or have been suggested to me on courses for both KS3 and 4.

Bushmillsbabe · 07/04/2026 11:23

Cloop · 06/04/2026 21:23

Yep. Some of what I used to teach in Y5 is now Y3. The curriculum is fully accessible to about the top 20% of children only. Occasionally we do an easier lesson in maths (e.g. co-ordinates in Y4 is pretty achievable for most) and the improved behaviour, attitudes and happiness of the entire class is really evident. I fear there's no way back now though. The curriculum can't be seen to be 'dumbed down'.

Thank you for sharing this.

I got 9 A/A* at GCSE and 4 A at A level in late 90's. I look at my year 5 daughters homework and think 'what on earth'. And her 11+ questions are similar to hardest on the 1% club. She is bright but still struggles occasionally, and has lost her confidence at times, calling herself 'stupid', and if she is finding it hard, it must be impossible for some of her class. I feel that the expectations are too high, and if they don't meet them they can feel like they are failing, which damages their confidence.

MyTrivia · 07/04/2026 11:23

Also, isn’t it ridiculous that 6 year old children are expected to be able to use perfect handwriting and punctuation now otherwise their skills are only ‘emerging’ ??! A mum on here was worried about this the other week.

When my older children were little, most of them received their pen licenses in year 3.

Chocolateforbreakfasttoday · 07/04/2026 11:22

Tryinghardertoo · 07/04/2026 11:06

He didn't get to interfere in the Scottish system. It gives an insight of what might have been if he and his disciples hadn't messed with things. In short; calmer, pupil centred and staff not looking burnt out.

Staff not burnt out? You have seriously got to be joking. Staff in Scotland are literally in their knees. The school system is completely collapsing from within and no one is in a great place. Violence, assaults, disruption, you name it it’s happening across the whole sector. Pupil centred? We wish it was.

scalt · 07/04/2026 11:21

@keiratwiceknightly Nick Gibb also said "No child will be left behind (as a result of lockdown)".

Slow clap.

It's a problem when we have politicians in charge of education whose only experience of "education" was being a pupil at a posh school. How about getting somebody who has been a teacher?

MyTrivia · 07/04/2026 11:20

CautiousLurker2 · 07/04/2026 09:52

Totally agree: my Dc are AuDHD it is clear upon subsequent personal diagnosis of myself that I and DH are too. As are my siblings and, likely, my parents were too. We managed school, usually teen angst and peer dynamics notwithstanding. In fact we thrived because it was a safe, nurturing space with engaged teachers who had space and time to indulge and encourage our idiosyncrasies and specialist passions.

School was my safe space away from a dysfunctional home and led me to multiple degrees. For my DH’s school was a supportive encouraging place filled with friends and lots of access to sport - both in the curriculum and in the break times where he learned social skills and ran off the excess energy enabling him to focus back in class.

My children aren’t broken - the system that we now call education is.

This is my point as well. I have an extremely anxious but very bright 6 year old and the state system would break her atm. But private schools often aren’t the best for a kid like this, either. So we had to find one that was right for her. Otherwise it’s HE.

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:18

noblegiraffe · 07/04/2026 11:16

But you claim that for children it’s entirely because of Gove’s education reforms.

Show quote history

no youre right i cant say its entirely Gove because nothing is entirely anyone’s fault but i can certainly blame a lot of school issues on him

OP posts:

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:17

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:15

“Govey” inspired what exactly? I made quite a number of points, perhaps you should use the tool to structure your responses as well as the OP.

Show quote history

I only have free Mumsnet so I can’t look at your posts.
i know nothing about the Scottish curriculum but i imagine they looked at what England were doing and used a few ideas.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 07/04/2026 11:16

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:13

Is there? Or is it just really shit right now, and we’re using soma - sorry, antidepressants and antipsychotics- because we all feel hopeless and like there’s nothing we can do about it?

Show quote history

But you claim that for children it’s entirely because of Gove’s education reforms.

keiratwiceknightly · 07/04/2026 11:15

I agree with my esteemed colleague Noblegiraffe. Gove’s blinkered approach absolutely harmed the curriculum, making it far too prescriptive and pretty dull to teach as well as learn. Can I remind everyone of his henchman - Nick Gibb - who’s equally dogmatic (and longer) tenure at the DofE seems to have been forgotten here? BUT screens and to a lesser extent COVID are hugely important in the change in children, creating a perfect storm in classrooms of tedious work and massive inattentiveness. I’d add 2 generations of gentle parenting into the mix as well - we see children at 12 and 13 years old whose parents always back their child against the school, those same parents are distraught when their child reaches 15 and “I can’t do anything with him/her”.

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:15

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:08

I can’t comment on Scotland because I’ve never been there or taught there. I imagine Govey inspired them? Isn’t he Scottish? Idk can someone Scottish tell me what they think?

Show quote history

“Govey” inspired what exactly? I made quite a number of points, perhaps you should use the tool to structure your responses as well as the OP.

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:13

noblegiraffe · 07/04/2026 11:11

There’s a similar increase in mental health problems in adults, but they don’t go to school.

Show quote history

Is there? Or is it just really shit right now, and we’re using soma - sorry, antidepressants and antipsychotics- because we all feel hopeless and like there’s nothing we can do about it?

OP posts:

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:13

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:09

Look up the increase in cahms numbers. If it was just Covid why is it still going up now? What explanation would you offer as an alternative other than iPads. Which definitely has a role but doesn’t answer the questions about the curriculum

Show quote history

I didn’t mention covid. What does that have to do with my point?

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:12

@Piggywaspushed I think because life worked for [Gove] , he believes in meritocracy pretty uncritically

I agree I think he absolutely believes this but also suffers from the conviction that what worked for him just needs to be repeated for everyone else. I see it a lot in politicians who would once have been labelled “working class made good” (or more accurately lower middle made good) who cannot see that what worked for them also failed others.

thevoiceofreasoning · 07/04/2026 11:12

100% I totally hate him too - along with Tony Blair who said everyone should go to university… So we are now left with a broken system with students going on the study worthless degrees that do not give them better, if indeed any, job prospects but saddled with £100 debt which most will never pay off …
Like you say others could correct it … but noone has the guts to admit it’s failed …

noblegiraffe · 07/04/2026 11:11

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:09

Look up the increase in cahms numbers. If it was just Covid why is it still going up now? What explanation would you offer as an alternative other than iPads. Which definitely has a role but doesn’t answer the questions about the curriculum

Show quote history

There’s a similar increase in mental health problems in adults, but they don’t go to school.

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:09

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:07

You are still assuming that the rise in diagnoses has a causal link with the Gove reforms. You have shown no evidence for this and ignored other much more significant societal changes.

It also ignores the problems of the shift to highly child centred which too often resulted in low expectations of WC and black children by a largely white MC profession.

If your point is the Gove curriculum is too bloated and far too prescriptive and inflexible - I’d agree with you. I also have direct experience of the Gove/Cummings utter conviction of their own rightness on every subject and reluctance to take on ideas which contradict their own thinking (although unlike Cummings, Gove was always polite and considerate in interactions and would take on board small changes etc).

However its just silly to pretend one size fits all in the mental health context any more than it does in the overall education of children.

Show quote history

Look up the increase in cahms numbers. If it was just Covid why is it still going up now? What explanation would you offer as an alternative other than iPads. Which definitely has a role but doesn’t answer the questions about the curriculum

OP posts:

Original poster

merrycola · 07/04/2026 11:08

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 10:58

Most of those points would apply to any document/paper written to explain complex scientific/technical designs and findings to a less expert audience. I’ve put old papers written for clients and internal use into the checkers - large numbers are identified as AI generated when they were written before common business usage of AI tools or free widely available tools. Pretty much any post with bullet points is accused of being AI drafted these days on MN - to which my question would be first and eye roll followed by "so what?”.

I use such tools daily to draft documents, pull back sources for research and do a mountain of admin type tasks. I would assume you do as well. That doesn’t make the content any less mine or me any less accountable for the content.

All that aside I agree entirely with the last part of your post. Correlation is not causation and its nonsense to take one component of change and blame it for all of society’s ills, especially when it ignores the impact of 24*7 mass media bombardment which is huge even compared to the experience of my young end millennial children. It also ignores the comparison made by a pp with the Scottish totally child centred system with similar levels of diagnosis and even worse educational outcomes (especially when compared to 25 years ago).

Show quote history

I can’t comment on Scotland because I’ve never been there or taught there. I imagine Govey inspired them? Isn’t he Scottish? Idk can someone Scottish tell me what they think?

OP posts:

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2026 11:07

merrycola · 07/04/2026 10:58

i guess it’s what you value. To you want mostly happy, well educated children who enjoy school, socialise well and ask the right questions or do you want the ‘best’ educated, dubiously happy children who just learn what they are told by rote and do as they’re told unquestioningly (not saying this is Singapore or any other country - just what I feel Gove’s curriculum unfortunately churns out

Show quote history

You are still assuming that the rise in diagnoses has a causal link with the Gove reforms. You have shown no evidence for this and ignored other much more significant societal changes.

It also ignores the problems of the shift to highly child centred which too often resulted in low expectations of WC and black children by a largely white MC profession.

If your point is the Gove curriculum is too bloated and far too prescriptive and inflexible - I’d agree with you. I also have direct experience of the Gove/Cummings utter conviction of their own rightness on every subject and reluctance to take on ideas which contradict their own thinking (although unlike Cummings, Gove was always polite and considerate in interactions and would take on board small changes etc).

However its just silly to pretend one size fits all in the mental health context any more than it does in the overall education of children.