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AIBU?

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Aibu to hate Michael Gove?

436 replies

merrycola · 06/04/2026 21:18

AIBU to hate Michael Gove for single-handedly creating the “overdiagnosis” crisis he’s now nowhere near enough to answer for?
Because let’s connect the dots.
He made the curriculum harder, narrower, and more rigid. Ofsted built an inspection framework around it that treats children like data points. And now — years later — we’ve got CAMHS referrals through the roof, school avoidance at record levels, exclusion rates climbing, teachers quitting in droves, and a growing media narrative that too many children are being diagnosed and parents are being pushy.
But nobody seems to want to say the obvious thing: we didn’t suddenly produce a generation of broken children. We built a system that broke the environment around them and then pathologised the ones who couldn’t cope.
The strategies that actually help — clear instructions, sensory breaks, mutual respect, not shouting — aren’t special needs strategies. They’re just good teaching. But there’s no time for good teaching when you’re trying to force a curriculum designed by a man who apparently thinks childhood is an inefficiency to be optimised.

And here’s what really gets me. Every education secretary since could have undone it. But none of them have, because reversing course would mean admitting the whole framework was wrong and that it’s been harming children for over a decade. So instead we get headlines about overdiagnosis and parents wanting labels for benefits, while the man who lit the match is off doing whatever Michael Gove does now.

We didn’t get an overdiagnosis crisis. We got a system that can’t admit it failed, so it diagnosed the kids instead.

OP posts:
Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 19:01

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2026 18:33

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear about your children's experiences, and it must be really upsetting for you in having to support them in their distress as well as taking on the incredibly heavy workload involved with dealing with the SEN system, particularly as a lone parent.

One problem with your proposal to set up a small school for a child who is both autistic and extremely academically able is: where would it go? There would need to be enough autistic and extremely academically able children to populate it, but at the same time I'm assuming you would not want it to be residential so would need to be close enough to its cohort for them to be able to travel to it. The cost of running it would be extremely high, so pupils would only be sent there if there was an extreme need for it. Given I teach Maths and Further Maths A-level, I have experience of teaching quite a few academically able autistic children who have succeeded in mainstream education so I'm not sure what percentage of the population you are thinking about catering to, how many schools you would need, and what the logistics of travel would be. What if there were a school in the country suitable for your child but it was 150 miles away?

On the 'disruptive loud classrooms' note, there are schools that have sought to deal with this with extremely strict behaviour policies (e.g. Michaela in London). However these schools then come under criticism for not being good for autistic pupils in other ways (e.g. strict uniform, encouraging eye contact). I'm not sure what your thoughts are there.

You also seem averse to the idea of an autism unit within a mainstream school - why - as this appears to be the current direction of government policy?

It is obviously unacceptable that there are no schools suitable for your children nearby - you have talked about private schools not being able to offer enough bursary for you to manage fees - have you had a serious conversation with the local private schools about this about what they would be able to offer?

Thank you for replying.

Sorry — perhaps I phrased it badly — I did not mean that there should be a school specifically for academically able autistic children only. Neurotypical children who are academically able and calm and not disruptive would be perfect companions for my children (and are many of their closest friends, although the ND ones also seem to magnetise towards them). I actually don’t think it would be good for children like mine to go to a school full only of other autistic children: they need to learn how to function in a neurotypical world and with neurotypical behaviour norms, this is a crucial part of learning for them. They live in an entirely autistic household and most of our family is autistic as well! That last thing they need is a school just for autistic children.

What I am saying is that there should be a much wider variety of schools to cater for different needs. The academic and calm children who want to learn and are neurotypical get on very well with my children and they need a school with those children, with smaller classes.

Children with violence and behaviour issues need a school just for them with appropriately trained staff and proper boundaries.

Children with learning disabilities need enough SEN school places to go to as they cannot access the national curriculum and it’s just unfair on them to be in mainstream schools as well as presumably making it impossible for staff?

Children with various other non-academic talents should be able to go to schools with specialist teaching in these areas while doing core subjects so that they don’t have their self-esteem crushed and are not made to feel worthless and can actually develop their equally valuable non-academic skills?

So my point is that these schools should be everywhere. And there would be more than enough children to populate them. Each school could be smaller - particularly secondary schools. They don’t have to be 6 to 8 form intake. Why can’t there be different schools that are two form intake and specialise in different things? Most children would prefer this. They can be organised in groups like academies and share staff between them if that makes it more efficient to ensure subject specialists, but generally there isn’t one subject specialist in a secondary school anyway but multiple so I really don’t see the barrier of scaling schools down and making them more bespoke to actually fit the children’s needs better because they are not all the same. Lots of other countries do similar.

Some children need extremely strict behaviour policies: the children with behavioural issues. The answer isn’t applying that to all: some have no behaviour problems so DON’T need this rigid system, what they need is the children who DO have these problems not to be in the same school as them.

The complaint from teachers I see the most (with which I agree) is that it is impossible for them to meet all of the competing demands and needs which clash. So is the obvious solution not to provide a variety of schools that can meet the different needs so that children whose needs are manageable together are together?

An “autism unit” in a mainstream state school will not help my children in any way. Will subject specialists teachers come to the “unit” and teach them in small groups like they need? No. It will be the same as now at primary: they’ll be unable to access the learning everyone else is receiving in the classroom and sent off to some unit with TAs or whatever to do nothing much at all, or just read books on their own all day like they do now. These “units” also will not be differentiated by type of need so by being sent there:

  1. their academic needs will not be met;
  2. they will be made to feel “different” and othered and excluded which they already absolutely HATE hence them refusing to wear ear defenders at school now etc;
  3. why should they not be able to access classroom learning like non-autistic children? We’ve proved they can if they are in a smaller group with non-disruptive children through their trial at a private school with smaller classes and no tolerance of violence and disruption, so why should they have to accept sub-standard education away from their peers in a “unit” when they are perfectly capable of being in the classroom in appropriate group sizes and if other people behave appropriately? Why should they have to miss out on their education and social interaction because other children can’t follow basic behavioural expectations?;
  4. these “units” are not being differentiated by need so it will be a case of setting up a two tier system shoving all children with any kind of problem with the state school classroom of 30 plus awful behaviour into the “unit” i.e. they will be being sent there with precisely the children who cause the problems for them in the first place;
  5. all of this is being proposed to try to save money, to remove EHCPs from many children who would have them now and instead have children’s needs assessed by non-medical school staff who (based on the ignorant comments and wildly out of date nonsense I’ve heard in recent years from them and supposedly “specialist” ASC team at the LA who are meant to advise schools on how to support autistic children yet don’t even seem to understand basics like masking etc) are completely incapable of doing this. As I understand it, one day of the PGCE is spent on SEND and subsequent training largely provided by the clueless Local Authority staff, so they have not the faintest idea what they are doing;
  6. The funding proposed to do this is vastly less than the additional funding currently provided to schools on top of their budgets via EHCPs. Per my earlier post, if these proposed reforms go through they will equate to a real-terms cut (on top of the cuts already scheduled per the departmental spending review that Reeves conducted) or around 15-20% in real terms. Do you think schools can absorb that and suddenly meet the needs of these children without any actual specialists assessing properly what support they require as happens with the EHCP process?; and
  7. it still does not address the issue for children like mine for whom the teacher in a mainstream state school CANNOT meet their academic needs, as the educational psychologist and their other specialists and school has confirmed, and also CANNOT meet their needs in terms of small classes to learn in, in a smaller setting with fewer people. How is a “unit” attached to an enormous school full of thousands of people most of whom they barely know going to be LESS overwhelming for them than primary school, which they already cannot attend?

Yes - I have been talking to private schools. See my posts above, where I explained about this.

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2026 18:33

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 13:14

@noblegiraffe I see you did answer some comments from the OP after I posted this but you haven’t responded to me. I have seen you for years very active on education threads, so I would be very grateful if you would answer this post when you have time to do so.

Where are children like mine meant to go to school in the state system? SEN specialist schools state they can’t meet their needs as do mainstream schools.

Where am I meant to send them?

I am a lone parent and work full time to provide for them, so home-schooling isn’t an option. When I had to do this for 4 months for my daughter because she became suicidal because of school - aged 5 - I had to care for/ educate her during the day and do my job at night and sleep for 2-3 hours per day which has led to an incurable cardiac condition so I cannot do that again. ETOAS is not an option either as both of them are sociable and want to be with peers (just not 30 of them in a room with shouting all day long and regular violence) and it is their legal right to attend school and have an appropriate education they can access just like children who are not autistic. They cannot do that in any of the schools that the state provides currently. So where should they go?

Do you agree that appropriate schools for children like them should be set up? Research shows that they are very far from alone in their predicament. As children with IQs well into the top 1% who are keen to learn, presumably their legal right to go to school should be upheld? Either they will be provided with an appropriate education without being traumatised further and likely become very productive members of society and high contributors to tax revenue, or the school system can continue deliberately traumatising them until they cannot attend at all and they will probably then become a net beneficiary of the state for life, so even if nobody in the Department for Education/ LA/ working in schools cares about their welfare it is a pretty goddamn stupid thing to do to children like this from a societal perspective.

You write on the education threads here very outspokenly and have done for years so I would be grateful to hear what your proposal would be for my children to be provided with an adequate education per the law; whether you agree with me that the Education Secretary’s proposals completely ignore children like them; and whether you will be making such points in response to the consultation.

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear about your children's experiences, and it must be really upsetting for you in having to support them in their distress as well as taking on the incredibly heavy workload involved with dealing with the SEN system, particularly as a lone parent.

One problem with your proposal to set up a small school for a child who is both autistic and extremely academically able is: where would it go? There would need to be enough autistic and extremely academically able children to populate it, but at the same time I'm assuming you would not want it to be residential so would need to be close enough to its cohort for them to be able to travel to it. The cost of running it would be extremely high, so pupils would only be sent there if there was an extreme need for it. Given I teach Maths and Further Maths A-level, I have experience of teaching quite a few academically able autistic children who have succeeded in mainstream education so I'm not sure what percentage of the population you are thinking about catering to, how many schools you would need, and what the logistics of travel would be. What if there were a school in the country suitable for your child but it was 150 miles away?

On the 'disruptive loud classrooms' note, there are schools that have sought to deal with this with extremely strict behaviour policies (e.g. Michaela in London). However these schools then come under criticism for not being good for autistic pupils in other ways (e.g. strict uniform, encouraging eye contact). I'm not sure what your thoughts are there.

You also seem averse to the idea of an autism unit within a mainstream school - why - as this appears to be the current direction of government policy?

It is obviously unacceptable that there are no schools suitable for your children nearby - you have talked about private schools not being able to offer enough bursary for you to manage fees - have you had a serious conversation with the local private schools about this about what they would be able to offer?

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 18:30

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 18:10

A common issue I have seen is physical violence ignored because the child is ND. The children that are victims of the violence don’t care why they are being attacked. They just don’t it want to happen again. Please.

I agree. It also is hugely insulting to people who are ND. It has nothing whatsoever to do with violence. I even had a member of SLT at my children’s school try to excuse the repeated violent behaviour of a child in the same class of one of my children to me, an autistic woman with two autistic children (!) on the basis that they “suspect” that this child might be ND. And therefore, apparently, this excuses him beating up my child and many of his friends, punching girls in the face, vandalising people’s property. Children going home literally black and blue (not my child but I’ve seen photos from friends). Utterly disgraceful and it fuels the false perception that the problems in schools are being caused by ND children when the vast majority of the problems have nothing to do with this. This child was not overwhelmed and lashing out in a meltdown, he was doing these things in a calculated and deliberate manner when completely calm and laughing about it. That is not neurodiversity. I suppose it’s more palatable for the school staff to tell the parents that they suspect ND than that the child has either suffered some huge trauma or has a personality disorder, therefore people with genuine autism or ADHD which are almost entirely hereditary are cast as the problem and simultaneously have the funding that is meant to support their educations siphoned off to deal with behavioural problems which mostly have nothing whatsoever to do with disabilities.

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 18:14

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:59

I agree. If you read my earlier posts on the thread you will see I have expressed great sympathy with teachers and the impossible position they are in where they cannot teach and are expected to put up with violence and unacceptable behaviour. I am devastated that the best teacher my son has ever had was driven out of his school last term. I have friends who are teachers. It’s absolutely shocking and one of my concerns about the proposed education reforms is that this will make the intolerable working conditions of teachers even worse and mean many more leave.

Nobody should have to put up with violence and abuse at work, and teachers cannot possibly do what’s being demanded of them in state schools because it is impossible for children with such completely different needs to be taught in one classroom. Therefore, the whole structure of the system has to change so that different schools are set up to meet the needs of different children. I can’t see any other viable solution. I don’t blame the individual teachers at all: all I have encountered are trying very hard to do an extremely hard job and having demands made on them that should never be part of their job in the first place. I think there are some very dubious Head Teachers who are not fit to hold those positions, but in terms of class teachers I am amazed at how they continue to cope at all in such an appalling system and have nothing but respect for them. I couldn’t do it.

I would quite like to be a teacher, I love information and learning and teaching that to kids. I have 2 degrees and a transferable professional qualification

No way would I do teaching in this current system either.

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 18:10

A common issue I have seen is physical violence ignored because the child is ND. The children that are victims of the violence don’t care why they are being attacked. They just don’t it want to happen again. Please.

FabulousFreshias · 08/04/2026 18:08

Totally agree with you OP, I’m an experienced teacher and everything you say is 100% true

Mischance · 08/04/2026 18:04

School uniforms are a total nonsense. Have a few rules about what is acceptable and what is not and leave it at that.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 18:01

Oh God yes, the obsession with uniforms!! I had to go through a two year discussion with my children’s school before my son was allowed to wear a plain white polo shirt in a soft fabric he could tolerate on his skin without a scratchy logo. A child who was 4 when this discussion began. This is what they are concerned about, rather than him not crying before school because the clothes hurt his skin and being able to come to school calm and comfortable and ready to learn?

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:59

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 17:53

Agreed, except (and Im no massive fan of teachers), how do you think teachers cope with all of this as well? They didnt create the system

They're getting burnt out at a rate of knots as well, leaving the profession in droves and getting late diagnoses of ND, pathologised again.

I think teachers do understand to some degree but what can they do about it

I remember a meeting where we needed for a school to allow a child to have their hoody up in the day, they simply couldnt allow it as it would breach uniform rules, but she needed her hoody on with the hood up in order to cope emotionally. So she just kept getting detentions and in the end 'school cant meet need'

Well actually all the other stuff about school was managable and her behaviour was manageable, just not the uniform. Such a small thing which didnt need to happen. But Ofsted......

I agree. If you read my earlier posts on the thread you will see I have expressed great sympathy with teachers and the impossible position they are in where they cannot teach and are expected to put up with violence and unacceptable behaviour. I am devastated that the best teacher my son has ever had was driven out of his school last term. I have friends who are teachers. It’s absolutely shocking and one of my concerns about the proposed education reforms is that this will make the intolerable working conditions of teachers even worse and mean many more leave.

Nobody should have to put up with violence and abuse at work, and teachers cannot possibly do what’s being demanded of them in state schools because it is impossible for children with such completely different needs to be taught in one classroom. Therefore, the whole structure of the system has to change so that different schools are set up to meet the needs of different children. I can’t see any other viable solution. I don’t blame the individual teachers at all: all I have encountered are trying very hard to do an extremely hard job and having demands made on them that should never be part of their job in the first place. I think there are some very dubious Head Teachers who are not fit to hold those positions, but in terms of class teachers I am amazed at how they continue to cope at all in such an appalling system and have nothing but respect for them. I couldn’t do it.

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 17:53

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:49

I often think that teachers/ others who can’t seem to comprehend how autistic children experience the school environment due to their sensory issues and language and communication differences should be made to sit in a room all day with people shouting and screaming through loudspeakers all day long; everyone speaking to each other at all being required to use one even if the person you are speaking to is sitting directly next to you. There should also be noises like nails scratching down blackboards, buzzing and whirring sounds played throughout the day through speakers.

There should be various spotlights positioned around the room at awkward angles to shine directly into their eyes no matter where they look. These lights must flicker constantly like strobe lighting.

The temperature should be turned down to -5 but they shouldn’t be allowed to wear a coat, and they should be forced to wear socks filled with sand inside their shoes and clothes lined with sandpaper.

The walls should be covered in psychedelic patterns in neon colours to make them feel sick, and various disgusting smells should be pumped into the room all day like strong odours of B.O. and farts.

Everyone should be required to wear a mask covering their whole face at all times as well so that nobody can read each other’s facial expressions to help them understand what they are trying to communicate over the background noise.

Should they find this unpleasant at any point and ask to have a break from the environment for a few minutes they should be told to stop being so entitled and thinking they are special, quit whinging and just get on with it. Surely, after all, they can just turn down the sensitivity levels of their eyes and ears and sense of smell and nerve endings on demand to suit the environment? Who do they think they are, being so demanding and precious?

Then, at the end of the day they can feed back how they think it went, and it should be announced at that point that they’ll be doing the same for the next four days running. Oh, and next week, and the week after that, and….

And apparently making the superhuman effort required to endure that ^^ every day in order to fit around other people’s preferences simply because there are more of them than you, is not sufficient. You should also tolerate verbal abuse and people hitting you and throwing furniture as well.

Really easy to concentrate and focus on your work in such an environment, I’m sure.

Agreed, except (and Im no massive fan of teachers), how do you think teachers cope with all of this as well? They didnt create the system

They're getting burnt out at a rate of knots as well, leaving the profession in droves and getting late diagnoses of ND, pathologised again.

I think teachers do understand to some degree but what can they do about it

I remember a meeting where we needed for a school to allow a child to have their hoody up in the day, they simply couldnt allow it as it would breach uniform rules, but she needed her hoody on with the hood up in order to cope emotionally. So she just kept getting detentions and in the end 'school cant meet need'

Well actually all the other stuff about school was managable and her behaviour was manageable, just not the uniform. Such a small thing which didnt need to happen. But Ofsted......

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:53

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 17:49

I also think a common mistake in these discussions is to polarise the 'violent bully' vs 'compliant child' vs 'vulnerable SEN or ND child' as if they are all different

Many children are both victim and perpetrator, sometimes for similar reasons, sometimes for different reasons. Many SEN children hit out, are violent, are bullies, perhaps to the 'compliant child', perhaps to the 'SEN or ND child'.

All children need a learning environment that is flexible to what that child needs to reduce isolation, reduce violence and aggression and increase social and intellectual achievement.

It needs extra finance to achieve that but above all it needs a huge culture shift away from attainment, performance and grading

People will be uncomfortable with that.

Just like with neurotypical people of course some ND people will be unpleasant or bullies. It isn’t a personality type. There’s absolutely no correlation between the two though. The myth that autistic people lack empathy has been thoroughly debunked, in fact academic research showed that on average they are more empathetic than neurotypical people, they just express it in a different way that is often misunderstood.

These are two separate issues:

  1. Neurotypical people and ND people are both equally capable of being assholes. Violent and unacceptable behaviour should be dealt with no matter who is the perpetrator.

  2. Children with disabilities should be provided with an appropriate environment for them in which they can learn, just like neurotypical children receive.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:49

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 17:03

I ought to say that prior to my child attending state they were in mainstream. They put up with being beaten up on a near daily basis for being socially awkward admirably really (no consequences for violence here, the bully was just ‘communicating a need’ or some such nonsense) it was the unpredictable screaming outbursts of their classmates which was the final straw. When you have ASD and you are constantly on edge due to various sorts of sensory overloads stretching classmates and flying furniture is impossible to cope with and they flatly refused.

We can just about cope with the expense of the school. The VAT added when you are only using the school due to being unable to access a suitable education for your child in the state sector takes the Mickey though. The change in educational experience is priceless.

very best of luck for future years.

I often think that teachers/ others who can’t seem to comprehend how autistic children experience the school environment due to their sensory issues and language and communication differences should be made to sit in a room all day with people shouting and screaming through loudspeakers all day long; everyone speaking to each other at all being required to use one even if the person you are speaking to is sitting directly next to you. There should also be noises like nails scratching down blackboards, buzzing and whirring sounds played throughout the day through speakers.

There should be various spotlights positioned around the room at awkward angles to shine directly into their eyes no matter where they look. These lights must flicker constantly like strobe lighting.

The temperature should be turned down to -5 but they shouldn’t be allowed to wear a coat, and they should be forced to wear socks filled with sand inside their shoes and clothes lined with sandpaper.

The walls should be covered in psychedelic patterns in neon colours to make them feel sick, and various disgusting smells should be pumped into the room all day like strong odours of B.O. and farts.

Everyone should be required to wear a mask covering their whole face at all times as well so that nobody can read each other’s facial expressions to help them understand what they are trying to communicate over the background noise.

Should they find this unpleasant at any point and ask to have a break from the environment for a few minutes they should be told to stop being so entitled and thinking they are special, quit whinging and just get on with it. Surely, after all, they can just turn down the sensitivity levels of their eyes and ears and sense of smell and nerve endings on demand to suit the environment? Who do they think they are, being so demanding and precious?

Then, at the end of the day they can feed back how they think it went, and it should be announced at that point that they’ll be doing the same for the next four days running. Oh, and next week, and the week after that, and….

And apparently making the superhuman effort required to endure that ^^ every day in order to fit around other people’s preferences simply because there are more of them than you, is not sufficient. You should also tolerate verbal abuse and people hitting you and throwing furniture as well.

Really easy to concentrate and focus on your work in such an environment, I’m sure.

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 17:49

I also think a common mistake in these discussions is to polarise the 'violent bully' vs 'compliant child' vs 'vulnerable SEN or ND child' as if they are all different

Many children are both victim and perpetrator, sometimes for similar reasons, sometimes for different reasons. Many SEN children hit out, are violent, are bullies, perhaps to the 'compliant child', perhaps to the 'SEN or ND child'.

All children need a learning environment that is flexible to what that child needs to reduce isolation, reduce violence and aggression and increase social and intellectual achievement.

It needs extra finance to achieve that but above all it needs a huge culture shift away from attainment, performance and grading

People will be uncomfortable with that.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:41

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 17:03

I ought to say that prior to my child attending state they were in mainstream. They put up with being beaten up on a near daily basis for being socially awkward admirably really (no consequences for violence here, the bully was just ‘communicating a need’ or some such nonsense) it was the unpredictable screaming outbursts of their classmates which was the final straw. When you have ASD and you are constantly on edge due to various sorts of sensory overloads stretching classmates and flying furniture is impossible to cope with and they flatly refused.

We can just about cope with the expense of the school. The VAT added when you are only using the school due to being unable to access a suitable education for your child in the state sector takes the Mickey though. The change in educational experience is priceless.

very best of luck for future years.

Sounds familiar. The poor violent bullies. Who cares about the needs of the child who doesn’t want to be beaten up at school? Why should they be a human shield? And absolutely spot on about the sensory overwhelm for children with ASD: the school environment is already ten times harder for them, there is absolutely no way they will be able to cope in an environment where there is regular violence and verbal abuse and that level of noise and disruption. As an autistic adult I couldn’t do it so how could it be expected of children?

Schools are doing these disturbed and violent children no favours, either. They are presumably like this because there are not appropriate boundaries at home which is all the more reason to ensure there are at school. Rules, consequences. What do they think they will be like as adults if they are taught that this is acceptable? And of course it undermines all of the good parenting done by other parents who enforce boundaries and appropriate behaviour if then their children go to school and witness other children behaving like this with no consequences whatsoever.

I get so angry when I hear this “communicating a need” nonsense. With ASD both me and my children have to live in a world not designed for us and accept that many things will be much harder. Therefore, since they were young I have taught them how to identify and express their emotions and coping mechanisms to process and communicate and manage their emotions in a healthy and appropriate manner. It has always been absolutely clear that it is NOT an excuse for bad behaviour and there have always been consequences and boundaries alongside a lot of scaffolding and understanding and love. The goal should be to give them the tools to manage their difficulties and if children like yours and mine who are coping with ASD on top of school can do it then it is clearly unacceptable for schools to make excuses for children (excluding those with intellectual impairments to the degree that they should not be in a mainstream school anyway so literally have no cognitive control over what they are doing) being violent. It is ridiculous and just demonstrates yet again that they don’t understand even the very basics of brain development in either neurotypical or neurodiverse children.

Well done for getting your children out, they are very fortunate. It is great to hear that they are thriving now. I am so worn down by this battle, having to fight the very “services” like schools whose job it is to help my children thrive, just to try to stop them destroying them entirely. I hope that there will be a light at the end of the tunnel for them eventually and I can have them transferred to a school that they can actually attend before their mental health and education is beyond repair. However, given that there are thousands like them and most won’t have parents able or prepared to fight the system like I have for years now or pay to remove them like you have — paying for their education twice, in effect — no sensible discussion about the school system can take place until these elephants are acknowledged, can it?

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 17:25

ScrollingLeaves · 08/04/2026 17:00

What’s more, ( even without the extra cost of state 1:1), at one point a group of private schools were suggesting they could take children for the same amount the state pays for them anyway, and they would then make up the rest. But this was turned down.

Now there is a further barrier through VAT, with no allowance for what the state would have been paying for any given child anyway.

@Nepmarthiturn have you asked this school if they could offer your very bright special needs DC bursaries?

That is appalling! Why would they turn that down?! They are actively sabotaging children through sheer ideology. There’s no other explanation, is there?

There are bursaries but they are often not available until secondary school level, and usually only a small proportion of fees. Also following the VAT on fees most independent schools are (understandably) redirecting a lot of the money they used to use on bursaries to subsidising fees so that they don’t have to pass on the whole fee increase to families with children already at these schools so that children who are already settled there are forced to leave.

It is difficult because I am a lone parent so although I earn well I am hugely penalised by the tax system in terms of having a far lower net income than a household with two parents whose combined income was the same as mine, due to being taxed far more on the same household earnings. And also because neither of my children can do group childcare (after school clubs, holiday clubs) for the same reasons that they can’t cope with state school so as well as paying our mortgage I still have a childcare expense of around £2.5k per month because I have to hire nannies for all wrap around care and school holidays when I’m working (which is a lot because my annual leave comes nowhere close to covering school holidays, another single parent penalty, and private school holidays would be even longer which would be perfect for my children but an additional cost for me).

I have stayed awake many nights running the numbers on this and trying to find a way, as I’d pull them out and put them in an independent school in a heartbeat if I could, but I really can’t afford to pay even say 50% of private school fees for two children, and bursaries generally aren’t even 50%. At secondary school, fees even in the smaller independent schools here are £25-30k per child per year, so I’d need say an extra £30k net income to fund it even if both children had a 50% bursary, which means earning nearly double that amount more before tax.

My worry is also that private school fees have generally been rising 10% per year over the last decade or so (VAT issue aside) and my salary does not, but I am limited now also in terms of career progression and being able to try to increase my earnings further because I have to be local all the time for all the reasons I’ve described with children frequently off school or needing collecting at short notice, medical appointments, endless battles with the LA etc, and the damage that all of this has already done to my health leaving me with a lifelong and incurable cardiac condition. It really feels like we are stuck in an impossible Kafkaesque situation with no way out with these people having made their professional crisis/ funding crisis a crisis for my family and wrecked much of their childhood as well as my health and finances.

This keeps me up at night. I have fought and fought for them and done everything I can, running my health and career into the ground and barely sleeping so I can maintain full time work, give them the support they need, stay up at nights doing all the legal paperwork etc, but it isn’t enough. It is absolutely heartbreaking that I know exactly what they need, it’s crystal clear in all of the reports and from the time they spent in an independent school which proved it, but I cannot give it to them.

likelysuspect · 08/04/2026 17:14

Yup.

I bang on about this on thread after thread after thread. We create unhuman/inhuman, sometimes inhumane systems and wonder why both children and adults cant cope

We then pathologise the 'not coping'.

Needs repeating frequently.

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 17:03

Oaktree1952 · 08/04/2026 15:28

I completely agree. I can’t believe that no one in the government has made this connection particularly as we have a different party in power at the moment. They could blame the conservatives and change it. I think it is really sad that we have only 6 weeks on a topic now. I remember having a whole term to cover a topic but not anymore. It just means everyone is more stressed, stretched and the pressure is too much.

I ought to say that prior to my child attending state they were in mainstream. They put up with being beaten up on a near daily basis for being socially awkward admirably really (no consequences for violence here, the bully was just ‘communicating a need’ or some such nonsense) it was the unpredictable screaming outbursts of their classmates which was the final straw. When you have ASD and you are constantly on edge due to various sorts of sensory overloads stretching classmates and flying furniture is impossible to cope with and they flatly refused.

We can just about cope with the expense of the school. The VAT added when you are only using the school due to being unable to access a suitable education for your child in the state sector takes the Mickey though. The change in educational experience is priceless.

very best of luck for future years.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/04/2026 17:00

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 15:27

Thank you. From their trial at such a school, it is exactly what they need.

My daughter said “this is my dream school. If I could go here, Mummy, then I wouldn’t cry every morning. I could be just like everyone else. It is my third favourite place after home and holidays.”

Quite heartbreaking, when it would cost half as much as state mainstream plus a 1:1 which she has currently (which she did not need in a class of 12 calm and well-behaved children in the independent school because she was in class all day, learning, enthusiastically participating in lessons, whereas at state school she has not managed a full week at school in the last 2.5 yrs and even when there manages an hour a day in the classroom and comes home exhausted, distressed and often unable to communicate).

What’s more, ( even without the extra cost of state 1:1), at one point a group of private schools were suggesting they could take children for the same amount the state pays for them anyway, and they would then make up the rest. But this was turned down.

Now there is a further barrier through VAT, with no allowance for what the state would have been paying for any given child anyway.

@Nepmarthiturn have you asked this school if they could offer your very bright special needs DC bursaries?

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 16:53

Owlbookend · 08/04/2026 15:02

I think a few things are being conflated here.
@Nepmarthiturn You state 'The unchangeable aspects of the current structure (i.e. class sizes of 30, loud and disruptive and violent behaviour tolerated) that make it IMPOSSIBLE for some children like mine to attend regularly.' I would suggest that this is not an accurate representation of all state education. My DD attends a statistically average, large state comprehensive school. Yes many class sizes are around 30. There is some loud and disruptive behaviour. However, it is challenged. Violent behaviour does happen, but it is rare and certainly not 'tolerated' You seem to have had very poor experiences for your children, which are even more difficult for your them because if their additional needs. I am genuienely sorry this has been rheir experience. However, it is not a universal experience within state education and no child should be in a setting where violent behaviour is unchallenged.

The need for additional specialist provision for children with ASD/EBSA/anxiety but not learning disabilities or externalising behaviour issues is highlighted. I think that additional provision for this type of need should be resourced. However, this is then extrapolated to a myriad of specialist schools with different 11-16 pathways for diffeeent children . I don't think this is desirable, but even if the majority thought it was how could it ever be logistically practicable or resourced? Unless children were allocated a creative/sport/academic/behaviour control pathway at 11 you would need spare capacity to offer choice. Outside densly pooulated areas there wouldn't be enough young people to justify all these specialist schools. The expense would be enormous. Pragmatically it couldn't work.

Comprehensives can offer different curriculum approaches for 14 to 16 year olds. Post 16 specialism is possible. Young people whose vunerabilities make the mainstream environment unsuitable need specialist support and potentiialy provision. This doesnt mean we need multiple specialist secondary schools.

Different pathways like that focus on different skillsets is exactly how state education works in many countries with many more options for young people and their parents to choose from so that they can find the right school for their child, so I’m not sure why you think it would not be feasible. Do you think the current system of “one-size-fits-all” is “desirable” and serving children’s best interests to enable them to learn effectively and develop their individual and different talents, and to develop useful skills that will help them move into good employment/ careers as adults? If not, then it isn’t an appropriate model of schooling, is it, given that these things are the purpose of school?

And, as I have stated, there are no state schools to meet the needs of autistic but academically able children. There are few state schools to meet the needs of academically able children who aren’t autistic. There are not enough specialist state schools to meet the needs of children with significant physical disabilities or learning disabilities. There are not separate schools set up for children with behavioural problems that can provide the right boundaries and support to deal with that while keeping those children from ruining education for everyone else. There are large numbers of children who have various skills that should be developed but who are not very academic and are denied the chance to excel and made to believe they are stupid because they are forced to focus primarily on academic learning which is not and never will be their forté, while their other skills that could lead to successful careers are largely ignored and devalued. As a result, the 30-40% of children for whom the current model of mainstream state schooling might provide a just-about-acceptable education in the absence of all of these other children being forced into their schools cannot learn either.

What’s the argument for doubling down on the idiotic status quo which is causing a mental health crisis in young people, creating a population of young people whom education has failed and don’t have the right skills for the workforce, putting engaged children off learning and making them hate school, and is so miserable that not only are most of the children miserable but so are the school staff?

Oaktree1952 · 08/04/2026 15:28

I completely agree. I can’t believe that no one in the government has made this connection particularly as we have a different party in power at the moment. They could blame the conservatives and change it. I think it is really sad that we have only 6 weeks on a topic now. I remember having a whole term to cover a topic but not anymore. It just means everyone is more stressed, stretched and the pressure is too much.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 15:27

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 15:11

My child is extremely intelligent and thrives in mainstream private. The classes are streamed, there is no violence and disruption, it’s a very calm teaching experience and the children are happy and confident, and truly passionate about learning.

This sort of schooling needs to be available on the state. We need to start by restoring safety, calm and order to the classroom as a matter of urgency. Respect for fellow pupils, not derision. Inclusion is the very worst mindset for the government to take. Putting disruptive SEN children and violent bullies into mainstream schooling damages the education and wellbeing of every other member of the class.

Thank you. From their trial at such a school, it is exactly what they need.

My daughter said “this is my dream school. If I could go here, Mummy, then I wouldn’t cry every morning. I could be just like everyone else. It is my third favourite place after home and holidays.”

Quite heartbreaking, when it would cost half as much as state mainstream plus a 1:1 which she has currently (which she did not need in a class of 12 calm and well-behaved children in the independent school because she was in class all day, learning, enthusiastically participating in lessons, whereas at state school she has not managed a full week at school in the last 2.5 yrs and even when there manages an hour a day in the classroom and comes home exhausted, distressed and often unable to communicate).

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 15:16

You state 'The unchangeable aspects of the current structure (i.e. class sizes of 30, loud and disruptive and violent behaviour tolerated) that make it IMPOSSIBLE for some children like mine to attend regularly.' I would suggest that this is not an accurate representation of all state education.

This is 100% my child’s experience of state secondary here in Scotland. Think yourself lucky you can access a calm, safe learning environment for your child.

Chigreenen · 08/04/2026 15:11

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 13:14

@noblegiraffe I see you did answer some comments from the OP after I posted this but you haven’t responded to me. I have seen you for years very active on education threads, so I would be very grateful if you would answer this post when you have time to do so.

Where are children like mine meant to go to school in the state system? SEN specialist schools state they can’t meet their needs as do mainstream schools.

Where am I meant to send them?

I am a lone parent and work full time to provide for them, so home-schooling isn’t an option. When I had to do this for 4 months for my daughter because she became suicidal because of school - aged 5 - I had to care for/ educate her during the day and do my job at night and sleep for 2-3 hours per day which has led to an incurable cardiac condition so I cannot do that again. ETOAS is not an option either as both of them are sociable and want to be with peers (just not 30 of them in a room with shouting all day long and regular violence) and it is their legal right to attend school and have an appropriate education they can access just like children who are not autistic. They cannot do that in any of the schools that the state provides currently. So where should they go?

Do you agree that appropriate schools for children like them should be set up? Research shows that they are very far from alone in their predicament. As children with IQs well into the top 1% who are keen to learn, presumably their legal right to go to school should be upheld? Either they will be provided with an appropriate education without being traumatised further and likely become very productive members of society and high contributors to tax revenue, or the school system can continue deliberately traumatising them until they cannot attend at all and they will probably then become a net beneficiary of the state for life, so even if nobody in the Department for Education/ LA/ working in schools cares about their welfare it is a pretty goddamn stupid thing to do to children like this from a societal perspective.

You write on the education threads here very outspokenly and have done for years so I would be grateful to hear what your proposal would be for my children to be provided with an adequate education per the law; whether you agree with me that the Education Secretary’s proposals completely ignore children like them; and whether you will be making such points in response to the consultation.

My child is extremely intelligent and thrives in mainstream private. The classes are streamed, there is no violence and disruption, it’s a very calm teaching experience and the children are happy and confident, and truly passionate about learning.

This sort of schooling needs to be available on the state. We need to start by restoring safety, calm and order to the classroom as a matter of urgency. Respect for fellow pupils, not derision. Inclusion is the very worst mindset for the government to take. Putting disruptive SEN children and violent bullies into mainstream schooling damages the education and wellbeing of every other member of the class.

Owlbookend · 08/04/2026 15:02

I think a few things are being conflated here.
@Nepmarthiturn You state 'The unchangeable aspects of the current structure (i.e. class sizes of 30, loud and disruptive and violent behaviour tolerated) that make it IMPOSSIBLE for some children like mine to attend regularly.' I would suggest that this is not an accurate representation of all state education. My DD attends a statistically average, large state comprehensive school. Yes many class sizes are around 30. There is some loud and disruptive behaviour. However, it is challenged. Violent behaviour does happen, but it is rare and certainly not 'tolerated' You seem to have had very poor experiences for your children, which are even more difficult for your them because if their additional needs. I am genuienely sorry this has been rheir experience. However, it is not a universal experience within state education and no child should be in a setting where violent behaviour is unchallenged.

The need for additional specialist provision for children with ASD/EBSA/anxiety but not learning disabilities or externalising behaviour issues is highlighted. I think that additional provision for this type of need should be resourced. However, this is then extrapolated to a myriad of specialist schools with different 11-16 pathways for diffeeent children . I don't think this is desirable, but even if the majority thought it was how could it ever be logistically practicable or resourced? Unless children were allocated a creative/sport/academic/behaviour control pathway at 11 you would need spare capacity to offer choice. Outside densly pooulated areas there wouldn't be enough young people to justify all these specialist schools. The expense would be enormous. Pragmatically it couldn't work.

Comprehensives can offer different curriculum approaches for 14 to 16 year olds. Post 16 specialism is possible. Young people whose vunerabilities make the mainstream environment unsuitable need specialist support and potentiialy provision. This doesnt mean we need multiple specialist secondary schools.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/04/2026 14:55

DeafLeppard · 08/04/2026 14:30

Where are you in the country, @Nepmarthiturn? How many schools do you have nearby? I don't recognise this picture from our local schools: "just not 30 of them in a room with shouting all day long and regular violence"

Schools round here are variable in quality and yes, they aren't perfect, but none of them have that extended level of violence and shouting all the time. Obviously if you're in the highlands of Scotland and it's your local school or bust that's different.

I live in Sussex. In a very “nice” area so it is certainly not a school with a deprived cohort, quite the opposite. There is no enforcement of behaviour policies. Violent children who hit teachers or throw furniture or have regularly punched other pupils are not expelled. Classroom disruption and extremely loud noise is tolerated all day.

I have a very good advocate working on the case. The LA has accepted (per the assessments of the educational psychologist, neurodevelopmental paediatricians, SALTs, OTs, psychiatrists, the child therapist they both see weekly, and their school) that no mainstream state school can meet their needs as they cannot be in a class size of 30 people all day or manage this level of noise, unpredictable behaviour, violence, etc. They need to be in a calm environment otherwise all of their energy is going just on coping with the environment.

One of them has a 1:1, not because they require this academically. Simply because they cannot be in the classroom most of the day but can’t roam unsupervised around the school (still being quite young) so needs a TA to come and sit out on the field with them in summer while they read books or watch while they sit in a tent in the corridor reading a book through most of the school day. Apparently this constitutes a full time education. When they can manage to go in (this deteriorates over every term due to the cumulative impact of the environment, first with me being asked to collect them at lunchtime, then mid-morning, then not able to go at all) the school has them timetabled to be in class for 1.5 hours per day, if everything goes well.

Their educational psychologist reports and EHCPs say they are gifted and talented and require an extended and enriched curriculum and they aren’t even receiving the national curriculum, AND they are getting their mental health trashed to the point where the latest reports from their SALT and therapist state that they are at risk of complete school refusal.

These children are extremely bright. Gifted and talented and desperate to learn. Well behaved. A sponge for information. They feel excluded and “othered” for their disabilities when they are sociable, kind, popular and bright. Yet it is impossible for them to access an education because they cannot be in a class of 30 or deal with the disruption, violence and noise that is allowed to go on. No provision whatsoever is made for them anywhere in the state system. Their school states that no mainstream state school will be appropriate for them for these reasons.

No SEN specialist school for children like them exists anywhere in the country as far as I am aware. The SEN schools also do not specialise to meet specific needs: they take various the children for whom mainstream schools state they can’t meet the needs, so there are none which are for academically able and calm children who just want to learn and have fun with friends in a smaller group where there isn’t terrifying behaviour.

I sent them for a trial at a small local private school with class sizes of 12-15. The transformation was astonishing. They were able to be in class all day, attend all week, come home happy (not meltdowns or anxiety or nightmares), no crying before school. Able to be in class all day, engaged in learning — even as autistic children in a new environment with new people, children who really struggle with change and this was all brand new — no need for a 1:1 (so it would actually be much CHEAPER than sending them to mainstream state school with a 1:1 to watch them read a book outside the classroom alone, feeling excluded and rejected and receiving no teaching whatsoever.

As a lone parent I can’t afford to send them to such a place, though. Perhaps the LA will have to do so now because it hasn’t bothered to provide any school in the state system that they can possibly attend sustainably and now admits this. This has all broken my health and finances (it has cost me tens of thousands of pounds having to fight the LA to get them an EHCP at all despite stacks of medical reports because they aren’t disruptive and mask at school and are meeting baseline academic targets designed for children far less academically able despite extremely poor attendance, so nobody cares). However, I’m sure that many people would moan about the LA funding that despite the only reason it is necessary is because the state has failed to provide an appropriate school for them, and the fact it would be cheaper than paying for them not to get an education now at a state school with an unnecessary 1:1 to supervise them NOT being taught anything all day. And now we have an Education Secretary who seems determined that, even if they finally get sent to a private school where they can learn and thrive and most importantly not have any further mental health breakdowns, she will create more uncertainty and stress and try to REMOVE their EHCPs when they get to secondary age, dump them back into a mainstream state secondary school which they would never be able to attend and leave them out of school entirely.

Having a 5 year old say they want to jump out of the bedroom window and die rather than go back to school, and that they hope they never wake up again, is something I will never, ever forgive. Watching her disintegrate in front of my eyes from the happy child she was before school into a state where she could not even communicate with me and just lay under a blanket on her bed for hours each day, not wanting to play or be read to or watch a film or draw, nothing.

Seeing the impact on both of them when they are happy, kind, lovely children who are desperate to learn is something I will be angry about until the day I die.