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Aibu to hate Michael Gove?

436 replies

merrycola · 06/04/2026 21:18

AIBU to hate Michael Gove for single-handedly creating the “overdiagnosis” crisis he’s now nowhere near enough to answer for?
Because let’s connect the dots.
He made the curriculum harder, narrower, and more rigid. Ofsted built an inspection framework around it that treats children like data points. And now — years later — we’ve got CAMHS referrals through the roof, school avoidance at record levels, exclusion rates climbing, teachers quitting in droves, and a growing media narrative that too many children are being diagnosed and parents are being pushy.
But nobody seems to want to say the obvious thing: we didn’t suddenly produce a generation of broken children. We built a system that broke the environment around them and then pathologised the ones who couldn’t cope.
The strategies that actually help — clear instructions, sensory breaks, mutual respect, not shouting — aren’t special needs strategies. They’re just good teaching. But there’s no time for good teaching when you’re trying to force a curriculum designed by a man who apparently thinks childhood is an inefficiency to be optimised.

And here’s what really gets me. Every education secretary since could have undone it. But none of them have, because reversing course would mean admitting the whole framework was wrong and that it’s been harming children for over a decade. So instead we get headlines about overdiagnosis and parents wanting labels for benefits, while the man who lit the match is off doing whatever Michael Gove does now.

We didn’t get an overdiagnosis crisis. We got a system that can’t admit it failed, so it diagnosed the kids instead.

OP posts:
Araminta1003 · 07/04/2026 07:27

English literature is not a compulsory GCSE, only English language is in England, which is more „applied“ arguably.
62 per cent of kids passed all elements of KS2 SATS in 2025.
I think about 43 per cent take A levels. A levels were always hard and „advanced“. People constantly talk about grade inflation but last year only 4043 pupils got 3 A stars out of 313000 sitting A levels (not all took 3).

The issue with the GCSEs is the lack of enough foundation levels and interim levels and more flexibility. Education should be more tailored to ability but they don’t want to fund this and schools can’t offered a tailored programme based on need within the current structure.
The percentage passing GCSE maths and English is around 60 per cent too and mirrors KS2 somewhat.

40 per cent of kids don’t pass and the education system has to also focus on giving them a pathway that does not write them off/kill their confidence. Other countries have tiers and streams but that is not politically fashionable here. It’s all about comprehensive and one size fits all from the start.

Piglet89 · 07/04/2026 07:27

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics-leading/id1665265193?i=1000733442114

He still thinks he was great though - in the style of all completely deluded politicians.

Mengo · 07/04/2026 07:26

Allatsea1980s · 07/04/2026 07:02

This comment is depressing! Why learn anything then? Why not just produce a generation of phone addicted, ignorant people?

Or evolve education to embrace the technology we have now instead of sticking to methods that are proving time and time again to damage children and switch them off?

Tbh most children and yp don’t seem to use their phones to learn, they use them to communicate - often with a demise of real communication.

Education could focus more on life skills like budgeting, paying taxes, how to be self employed, critical thinking. They could easily fix the environmental factors that are playing to sensory issues in more and more children, and allow teachers more creative flexibility which they used to be able to do in order to meet more needs. Nowadays children are taught in a far narrower, more rigid way, and it’s not working for too many. We have growing numbers of SN in schools, because in order to meet their needs they need a diagnosis. No one in government is acknowledging the elephant in the room, that their policies over decades have done this. Not parents, or teachers, or the children themselves - whoever is held responsible for this mess.

I do wish that the government hold on education could be loosened. They’re destroying it, doubling down on processes that are not working. I don’t think there is particularly a time where it was perfect, but the changes in the last 30 years have directly led to destroying many children and families lives.

Noras · 07/04/2026 07:24

Needspaceforlego · 07/04/2026 07:19

Memorise 12 poems, I'm guessing you are being serious, and not exaggerating but what the actual fuck???

Short term memory is the biggest driver of dyslexia, thats what really makes dyslexics struggle to learn to spell, trying to memories poems is absolutely setting those kids up for failure.
Dyslexia, ASHD. ASD all overlap and all run together.

I'm willing to bet that alone is a big driver in parents seeking diagnosis for there kids.

I'm Scotland still to hit the Nat 4/ 5 but I'd be willing to bet they aren't much different. On fucking wonder I know 3 girls all really struggling with anxiety. Btw the 3 girls are in different circles and don't know each other.

I know i couldn't cope with that.

They do t need to memorise 12 poems. They just need to memorise the analysis of 12 poems and in reality in detail about half of that. This is better than having to analyse a poem they have not seen. So for instance eg the use of assonance in this context shows a sympathetic viewpoint or the language is rich in referencing to animal suggesting that the goblins are bestial. ..her emergence up the bank represents her rebirth as ercsister has sacrificed herself for her etc etc.

Nosejobnelly · 07/04/2026 07:24

So true
i remember when his policies came in to force. DD was about to start GCSEs and he was changing the English lit syllabus to the most boring texts!
I worked in a school for a bit and yes, you are correct, I’m so glad my DC went through primary before he implemented his system as they both had a pretty good experience (no fronted adverbials for them - whatever they are!). They did have SATs in year 2 and 6 though.

Chigreenen · 07/04/2026 07:23

Chocolateforbreakfasttoday · 07/04/2026 07:19

I’ve been a primary teacher in Scotland for 27 years. No Gove, no Ofsted, different curriculum and different culture. Yet it’s still a shitshow up here. There has to be more to it.

I’m in Scotland too. At least Englands PISA scores have got better since the Gove reforms. Up here Scotland’s results have fallen off a cliff. Be careful what you wish for!

ApplebyArrows · 07/04/2026 07:22

JumpinJellyfish · 07/04/2026 06:34

how many times will your kids be asked about the relationship between Titania and Oberon in a job interview

This is incredibly short-sighted and depressing and completely misses the point. The ability to understand, analyse and interpret complex texts is an extremely useful transferable skill, not to mention that an understanding of the nuances of human relationships is something that AI will likely never be able to do. The study of English literature is about what makes us human; it is not learning facts about the set texts.

I think there is a fair distinction to be made though between what is taught vs what is mandatory at GCSE. Should all kids be taught Shakespeare at some point? Yes. Should they all be required to sit and exam on it at age 16? More doubtful. Humanities teaching is important but I'm not sure literature needs to be given more primacy than history or music or whatever: subjects which also have key benefits but are not required at GCSE level.

Noras · 07/04/2026 07:20

Education is the backbone of national development—and no two countries illustrate contrasting philosophies quite like China and the United Kingdom. Both boast centuries-old traditions of learning, but their modern systems differ profoundly in structure, expectations, and outcomes. While the UK promotes creativity and independence, China’s rigorous system emphasizes discipline, mastery, and effort. Each has its strengths, but recent global rankings and real-world performance suggest that China’s approach may be better at preparing students for the competitive realities of the 21st century.
Academic Discipline vs. Holistic Freedom
Perhaps the most striking difference lies in academic intensity. Chinese students face longer school days, heavier homework loads, and a stronger focus on foundational subjects like math, science, and languages. The high-stakes Gaokao (college entrance exam) is infamous, but it drives an unparalleled level of academic commitment across the country.
In contrast, UK students benefit from a broader, more holistic curriculum—one that values well-being, extracurricular activities, and critical thinking. While this encourages personal development, it can sometimes dilute academic rigor, especially in early years when foundational skills are most crucial.
PISA test results—international benchmarks of education quality—consistently show Chinese students outperforming their UK peers in math, science, and reading. It’s not because Chinese children are inherently smarter, but because their system demands more and instills stronger study habits early on.
Respect for Teachers and Authority
In China, teachers command deep respect. Classrooms are highly structured, with clear hierarchies and expectations. Students rarely interrupt, and educators are regarded not just as facilitators but as moral guides and subject-matter experts. The result is fewer classroom disruptions and more instructional time.
In the UK, the relationship between teacher and student is more casual, which can foster open dialogue and creativity—but also leads to challenges with discipline and engagement, especially in underfunded schools.
This cultural difference plays a major role in outcomes. Where UK teachers often battle for attention, Chinese educators benefit from a culture that places learning and authority at the center of youth development.
Emphasis on Effort Over Talent
One of the quiet strengths of the Chinese system is its belief in effort over innate ability. Success isn’t attributed to being naturally gifted, but to hard work—a mindset that drives persistence and resilience. Students are taught early that excellence is earned, not inherited.
By contrast, the UK—like much of the West—often praises talent and originality. While this nurtures individuality, it may also lead some students to give up early if they don’t see themselves as “naturally good” at a subject.
China’s emphasis on effort democratizes success: any child, with enough focus and discipline, can rise.
Innovation vs. Mastery: The Trade-Off
To be fair, China’s strengths in structure and discipline sometimes come at the cost of creativity and mental well-being. Students are under immense pressure, and rote learning can limit imaginative thinking. The UK system, meanwhile, cultivates debate, expression, and innovation—key ingredients for entrepreneurship and design.
Yet as China reforms its education system, blending traditional rigor with creative programs, it may soon achieve the best of both worlds. Initiatives to reduce homework, reform university admissions, and expand STEAM learning (Science, Tech, Engineering, Arts, Math) are already underway.
Conclusion
The UK and Chinese education systems represent two ends of a philosophical spectrum: one centred on discipline, effort, and collective achievement; the other on individuality, balance, and expression.
But in a world of global competition—where foundational skills, resilience, and long-term focus matter more than ever—it’s hard to ignore the edge the Chinese model provides. A bit more structure, respect for effort, and academic intensity may be just what Western systems need to re-energize future generations.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 07/04/2026 07:20

Mum is ex teacher and senco retired.

Needspaceforlego · 07/04/2026 07:19

MumsGoneToIceland · 07/04/2026 01:07

When my dd’s both massively struggled with their GCSE content and asked me why they have to memorise 12 poems and reams of equations and formula that they just can’t keep in their heads, my answer has always been ‘because of Michael Gove’. Exams should be about how you apply information not memorising it in imo. Watching the stress and anxiety they go through and not be able to do anything about it is heartbreaking and makes me so angry at him for doing this to them. 😡

Memorise 12 poems, I'm guessing you are being serious, and not exaggerating but what the actual fuck???

Short term memory is the biggest driver of dyslexia, thats what really makes dyslexics struggle to learn to spell, trying to memories poems is absolutely setting those kids up for failure.
Dyslexia, ASHD. ASD all overlap and all run together.

I'm willing to bet that alone is a big driver in parents seeking diagnosis for there kids.

I'm Scotland still to hit the Nat 4/ 5 but I'd be willing to bet they aren't much different. On fucking wonder I know 3 girls all really struggling with anxiety. Btw the 3 girls are in different circles and don't know each other.

I know i couldn't cope with that.

Chocolateforbreakfasttoday · 07/04/2026 07:19

I’ve been a primary teacher in Scotland for 27 years. No Gove, no Ofsted, different curriculum and different culture. Yet it’s still a shitshow up here. There has to be more to it.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 07/04/2026 07:19

Whilst we’re on the subject of hated politicians, Jacob Rees-Mogg! Ugh! He’s MP for DB’s PIL’s and has helped them a bit so they have to grudgingly admit he’s ok.

coconutbiscuit · 07/04/2026 07:17

Bringemout · 07/04/2026 06:36

I don’t know, when I did my degree in the early 2000’s I had to call my mum to ask for help on something and she told me she had covered it at a-level when she was at school in the 70’s. I think we’ve been dumbing down education to make it more accessible so that more of us could get to university but it’s been damaging to educational standards in the UK and it’s happened over decades. I looked at some of her old gcse textbooks once, mind blown about how difficult they were.

Many of us probably should not have been going to university if we are being honest and a lot of this is because we don’t value things like apprenticeships and learning on the job. You don’t need to have a degree to be an excellent accountant for example, many I know are now working and studying alongside that.

Edited

This just isn’t true for primary education. Primary education has just got harder and harder and harder. To be working at an expected level in Year 2 now, the things you have to do when you write are ridiculous for a six year old. It just isn’t true that it’s been ‘dumbed down’. What’s been damaging to educational standards is the fact that masses of schools feel as though they have to just fluff the data because the children cannot possibly achieve these things and the staff and school leaders feel intense pressure to claim they they can.

Noras · 07/04/2026 07:16

I don’t think that you can put the issue of more diagnosis on him.

The NHS was very rigid about diagnosing ASD and ADHD hence was always thought of as the Gold Standard. The right to choose has increasingly changed all that. I speak as a parent who has a son with ASD NHS diagnosed now aged 22. Despite having having NHS OT and SALT diagnosed SPD and severe SLI ( results 1st percentile and below - pragmatic on .75 percentile) our Consultant kept rabbiting on about a Venn diagram and DS had bits of everything so just a complex nejrodevelopment disorder. ( He was unable to swallow for 3 years and had prolonged fits (Valium up backside requiring until aged 6). NHS SALT even said it’s ASD ring Consultant to confirm diagnosis. In reality it made little difference in that he still needed full time PA support in secondary and he still got DSA ( due to the severity of all the diagnoses issues as he presented as disabled whatever it was - he would rock in sports days, flap at PE and spin etc)

To this day he is significantly disabled and although at university has 50 hours PA support weekly funded by university and council.

Nowadays under right to choose this would have been resolved in 6 months and not when my son turned 18 when a new NHS consultant took one look and said ‘you do realise that your son has ASD’ and arranged an immediate emergency ADOS.

The issues with schools are that classes are too big. There is too much going on. People have to fight for PA support since the PA reforms ( which none of you have mentioned ) when an educational expert said that high quality teaching would make up for lack of PA cover ( how does that help a child with motor coordination who can’t write?) Schools now are vast impersonal large multi school academies where the Head has no idea who his or her pupils are. Schools are run as large businesses and there is little flexibility, SEN school that are equipped for normal intelligent but significantly disabled kids are almost non existent. The means of teaching disabled kids are not properly distilled to all teaching staff who don’t have the time in any event.

Also the internet has also encouraged more to seek a diagnosis as well as the proliferation of people encouraging others to self diagnose. This means that less severe cases are being pushed for diagnosis whereas you pretty much had to be extreme ( not remotely an invisible illness ) 20 years ago. My daughter recently got a diagnosis of ADHD as an adult and I don’t know whether to feel guilt that I never spotted it or confusion that I never spotted it. Hiwever compared to the severe needs of her brother it was lost.

I think that there have been too many factors to blame Grove entirely. Also if that was the case there would be more diagnoses in the Far East eg places like China where education is very curriculum intense etc. The issue we have is that we have to compete on education internationally and we are not. The issue is why are we falling behind places like Singapore etc.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 07/04/2026 07:14

ClairDeLaLune · 07/04/2026 00:28

Fronted adverbials. What the absolute fuck?? Fuck off you cunt Gove.

YANBU OP and well said 👏

My mum hates these too. Got a campaign up to get rid of these. Didn’t work.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 07/04/2026 07:11

My mum and most of her education friends (all teachers, head teachers) detest Gove with a passion. I think hate is a bit of a harsh word. But can see why he inspires this in some.

Cloop · 07/04/2026 07:08

Why are people on this thread continually comparing to the 90s? No one in education considers that a golden age for education either. The Gove curriculum came in in September 2015. We were teaching phonics and different methods for maths problems for a decade before that - he did not introduce them.

JumpinJellyfish · 07/04/2026 07:08

MayaPinion · 07/04/2026 06:50

But that’s not the way it’s taught. English literature is a singularly turgid subject and most kids drag themselves through it with the help of Betts study guides. I’m not saying it should be removed from the curriculum completely; there’s no reason it can’t be available for those kids who like a bit of Macbeth or Jane Eyre, but it should not take precedence over skills and knowledge that will actually help kids get decent jobs.

It makes dar more sense to develop those transferable skills through texts which actually have relevance to many more people, such as books on politics, economics, psychology, science, history or geography - even philosophy. They’re not the preserve of English literature, and nor is the study of relationships.

Then the problem is not the subject but the way it is taught.

If taught properly, it does provide the skills and knowledge that will help students get decent jobs. You’ve listed off a load of different subjects which, I agree, children should also have the opportunity to study, but none of them are better or more relevant than English. And I note none of them were mentioned in your first post, which seemed to suggest that kids should be studying social media.

Photobot · 07/04/2026 07:05

I do think it's important not to be misty eyed about education in the 80s and 90s though. At my rural schools the standards were appalling, there was loads of shouting and bullying of kids by teachers (including that throwback classic of board rubber throwing!) and maths was almost entirely self taught through those SPMG books (I used to skip huge chunks and no one checked). Safeguarding was rubbish. Phonics does work better for most kids (I've got one who it doesn't work for so don't @ me).

I'm not a fan of Gove's reforms. The curriculum is way too dense and fast. But e.g. Singapore maths is a much better way to understand number because you understand conceptually instead of just performing an operation, which allows you to apply different skills to a problem.

I'd like to see the reforms keep some of the better bits and our understanding about newer ways of teaching subjects. Pipe dream though. One of my children is dyslexic and I have to keep telling myself they are only behind against the current curriculum, it's not a life sentence.

StuntNun · 07/04/2026 07:03

echt · 07/04/2026 02:47

I think there's something about Education Secretaries that goes to their head, probably an extension of "I was at school so I know all about education". It becomes a playground for those who didn't make Home or Foreign Secretary; you only have to see how often the post holder moves on.
David Blunkett was pretty awful. I remember him saying that education had to focus on everything, the precursor of Gove's all pupils to be above average at maths. The other thing was the literacy hour, especially the bit where the government put up a whole bank of pretty good lessons, and then got all pissed off when teachers used them. The message is always do it yourself.

Same with OFSTED heads: Chris Woodhead, Michael Wilshaw. Both had active contempt for teachers. Woodhead was particularly venomous.
Having said that, Sir Keith Joseph introduced 100% coursework GCSEs which was a surprise coming from a Tory. I'm aware of how it could be and was fiddled, having taught and examined it, so it had to go.

Seeing the destruction wrought by Gove from the safe distance of Australia, I'm glad I got out to a (then) benign system (largely due to their not being able to organise a piss-up in a brewery).

I did 100% coursework Science GCSEs where you sat a paper each term. A bunch of the more academic children in my school realised that we had already gained A grades partway through year 11 and then sat the Foundation-level papers for the rest of the course without doing any revision - because it wouldn’t make any difference to our final grades. What a wasted opportunity for learning for all of us.

But then the knee jerk reaction was to entirely remove coursework from a lot of courses, which wasn’t any good either, and really caused issues during Covid when trying to calculate the Teacher Assessed Grades.

Allatsea1980s · 07/04/2026 07:02

StuntNun · 07/04/2026 06:56

It’s especially ridiculous for a generation that can look up the entirety of the world’s knowledge on their phones at any time. What is the value in having to memorise quotes for English or formulae for Maths?

This comment is depressing! Why learn anything then? Why not just produce a generation of phone addicted, ignorant people?

Allatsea1980s · 07/04/2026 07:01

JumpinJellyfish · 07/04/2026 06:34

how many times will your kids be asked about the relationship between Titania and Oberon in a job interview

This is incredibly short-sighted and depressing and completely misses the point. The ability to understand, analyse and interpret complex texts is an extremely useful transferable skill, not to mention that an understanding of the nuances of human relationships is something that AI will likely never be able to do. The study of English literature is about what makes us human; it is not learning facts about the set texts.

Agree. Also there is an element of cultural capital that, in order to improve social mobility, children simply need to be exposed to.

one thing I do agree with gove on (am a teacher): scrapping AS levels. They were a disaster for education. Two year a level much better.

Mere1 · 07/04/2026 07:00

SweetBaklava · 06/04/2026 21:40

He was universally hated by everyone I knew in education, a very bad man who did very bad things to the education system in this country.

Sir Keith Joseph began the rot…

MrsMurphyIWish · 07/04/2026 06:56

I fucking hate Gove. I’ve been teaching since 2000 and he ruined my subject - English. I was in mat leave when he became Ed Sec and when I returned the curriculum had changed for the worse. A decade and a half later I’m trying to get kids through GCSE and A-level Lit through memorising quotations. That’s not a skill - that’s just having a good memory. The skill is the ability to form and argument and apply the quotes.

I also see the horrors being a parent. DD is in Yr 10 and extremely bright but she hates English Lit despite having a love of reading. DS is in Yr 7 and has ASD. I look at him and I dread the GCSE years.

I’m quitting at the end of this year. Teaching is awful and quite frankly I’m bored and think anyone could get up and teach my rigid lessons.

StuntNun · 07/04/2026 06:56

user1471530109 · 06/04/2026 21:35

Oh he really is a stupid prick.
Why on earth didn't everyone jump on that "everyone above average" comment? Even my yr11s would snort at that.

My DD (autistic-but in this case makes no difference) having to learn loads of quotes from texts when 30years ago, when I took my GCSEs and took the texts in with me. I'm sure they had notes scribbled all in them too? Yet he wanted to reverse dumbing down?

Every teacher I've ever met (and unbelievably I've even met some Tory ones) hates Gove. He ruined education. I can definitely look back at my career and see 'before Gove' and 'after Gove'. None of it for the better.

It’s especially ridiculous for a generation that can look up the entirety of the world’s knowledge on their phones at any time. What is the value in having to memorise quotes for English or formulae for Maths?

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