Tips for how to not get drawn into this? Desperate!

oh definitely. It’s a matter or personal choice and what you can live with, what words mean to you. For me “if you say so” is on par with “I’m sorry you feel that way”. I’ve used successfully throughout the years in different situations with good results, so that also helps.

Honestly I would try and go with not responding or reacting in any way and only discussing your child. I wouldn't even use the phrases, although I can see it might be more helpful to have some kind of response prepared. But he's after a reaction where he knows he's got to you. So if you literally give him nothing at all, what can he do? Repeat himself? If he does that just say 'you said that already' and move on to something child related.

I see what you’re saying, and I’m absolutely not saying to get into an argument, because that obviously feeds the beast. Although ‘if you say so’ doesn’t feel right for me, maybe that is a ‘me’ thing.

I suppose it comes down to using the words that work best for us, and fingers crossed OP is getting some benefit from the various thoughts and ideas people have put forward.

I promise you it’s SO satisfying when they realise you’re not playing their game any more, and you’re not giving them the ammunition they crave to reel you back in. Not rising to it is YOU taking control back and they hate it - they’re no longer worth the energy you used to spend to convince them of your viewpoint.

That’s because that type mostly want the argument. They know they’re lying, they know the other person knows they’re lying. They enjoying seeing the other person tying themselves up in knots, getting upset, trying to justify themselves AND not getting anywhere. Wind them up and watch them spin kind of thing. That’s how they exert control

If we’re talking accusations of abuse (towards him or the child) , or neglect (the child) or a nasty custody battle , then it probably wouldn’t be the best answer. But even then, it’s not an admission of guilt to say if “you say so” it’s taking the wind out of their sails. There’s nowhere to go with that.

Grey Rock is a win every time. The fewer words the better.
You do you
Hmm
Righto
Whatever.
of course
LOL
Saves you time & fury. Has the added advantage of driving him mad !!!

I learned just not to rise to the bait. The whole point is to draw you in. It drove him mad that I just wouldn't respond to anything except logistical messages. Silence and ignoring is intensely satisfying - it denies people like him the fix they need.

Look up "jessrunsforsurvivors" on Facebook or Instagram. She has an ex who does this and she gives tips on how to deal with it. She uses the "JADE" technique - don't justify, argue, defend or explain xx

I would type the reply you want to say in notes on your phone. To get it out, so to speak. And I wouldn’t reply until the next day, and I’d just stick to the facts around what you need to message, short and straight to the point. Nothing else. After a while you may realise this gives you more satisfaction

I’m really surprised by the ‘if you say so’ type suggestions. Isn’t that just conceding/accepting he’s right? No way would I be letting a liar have anything they could latch onto as proof they’re right.

I’d stick with ‘we’ll have to agree to disagree’, and if he persists in trying to generate an argument, a simple ‘I’m busy and don’t have time for this, goodbye’ and leave the conversation.

I've just looked back at my last conversation with my ex and I repeatedly said "again that's not what happened" "we both know that's untrue" my favourite was "again as ive already told you that is up to the children" (they are older than yours though) that's the closest ive come to arguing with him for years because he contradicts everything at one point he told me he "had the messages and would happily show me" I told him I would I would love to see messages of a verbal conversation 😂

He sent no "proof" wished the kids happy Christmas and hasnt contacted them since (desperate to see them though can't you tell) he is now telling everyone he will see them when they are 18 and old enough to decide...that's this year for our eldest

You can’t change him

but you can stop getting drawn in to these utterly pointless arguments and chats.

Yes! This is the phrase I used with my manipulative dad and his selective memory! It’s actually super satisfying 😅 I hear you OP about the over explaining - it’s such a trap to use up all your energy trying to defend yourself. This phrase + plus subject change was so useful for me. ‘Recollections may vary Dad. See you next week - I’ll bring the cake,’ kind of thing…

Give it a rest.
This has been done to death already.
It doesn't matter now.
It's no longer important/relevant.
More important things to worry about.
All with a very neutral tone. One sentence and then talk about something else or just ignore any further comments. He isn't important to you any more, his opinion isn't important, and you have better things to do. And he is getting to you which is what he wants. I'm sure he will be very disappointed if he can't bait you into a fight so don't let him.

Every time he gets you to react to his insanity he sees it as a win. It’s SOOO hard but just don’t bite. I know you’ve said the child is young but limit your contact with the ex as much as you possibly can. Then, like others have said, just stick to the same response - I used to just stick with ‘right’. So whatever he said I just said ‘right <pause> child hasn’t had a nap today. I’ll see you at collection. Bye’

There is a very good saying ‘ Truth will out’ and it does eventually. Grey rock it! It’s very difficult but effective. My ex went about saying all sorts of untrue stuff and I totally ignored it, never verbalised anything to anyone about it just got on with my own thing. Eventually he got bored and everyone figured out he was being a dick so he ended up isolating himself though his own crappy behaviour. Those that are most important to you know your truth that’s all that matters.

Just ignore.

you’re feeding his need for supply

Follow Jessrunsforsurvivors on instagram. She also just did a podcast on Kate Ferdinand’s blended podcast.

she goes through all of the techniques-
jade, bif and grey rock.

I think you first and foremost need to completely LET GO of the idea that this man will ever be reasonable and concerned with the accuracy and truthfulness of events.

I found that once I let go of any expectation of reasonableness - it was easier for me to stop rising to the bait. I expected him to be unreasonable, he was unreasonable as I expected so there was nothing to see there or to react to.

At the moment, your emotions and brain are still telling you that if you just argue back with the truth, he will realise the discrepancy and change. He will not.
This is his narrative and he lives in that narrative and in fact believes it to be true. Forget about trying to convince him otherwise.

Just use the stock answers as suggested by PP.
Re-direct to the actual topic that needs discussing.
Pretend you are talking to a brick wall - because that is what it feels like - and just repeat again and again - “ok, so what are we doing re: DC next week?”

If you try to “correct” his inaccuracies you are fuelling the conversation.

Learn to stop giving a shit about what he thinks - especially if you are sure you are right - and focus on getting the information that you need out of the conversation eg what time are you picking DC up tomorrow? That’s
all you need - the time and place. Everything else is noise.

Also stop caring / fearing what he says about you to others. I’ve been divorced over a year now and I am astounded at how many of my friends/family who have only now said “we always knew he was a …..”.

Astounded because we were together 23 years and no one said anything to me prior to the divorce and now friends / family are using words like “manipulative”, “overbearing”, “talked over you”…. So that means people will be able to see him for who he is.

As long as you remain focused on your co-parenting goals, everything else will come out in the wash I think.

You don't need to allow him access to you via conversations or texts or calls.

Limit him to a parenting app only. Disregard him entirely except for child contact arrangements

Either completely ignore or give him thumbs up.

If it’s on the phone or via messages I would block him unless I had something to say about your child or confirming arrangements. Or use a parent contact app where texts are recorded (although he might not agree to use it). Don’t pick up phone calls if you don’t want to block him. Ideally drop your child to your or his parents and he can collect from there. Limit contact as much as possible to protect your peace

Keeping in mind that you giving him a reaction and arguing with him is exactly what he wants might help you not react. I'd just say 'if you say so' and move the conversation to what you need to discuss regarding the child. If there nothing else to say about the child I'd just say, 'see you next week' and be on my way.

You need to prepare in advance and practice what you are going to say. When he says people see things differently. Stand up tall, look him in the eye, smile and say ‘ that’s true, as the Queen said herself ‘ recollections may vary’
And that’s all you need to say. Closed the discussion down completely.

To add to my earlier post, I think one of the reasons its often hard not to get drawn in is that you know he will be spouting this nonsense to anyone and everyone who will listen. And they are good at doing it so you are trying to "make" him see sense so he wont badmouth you externally. But again, that won't change.

Sadly, thw control often happens because its not unusual for their version of the narrative to have been accepted by extended family and friends for a long time. But, I promise you, the people who are important to you will see what is happening. And if he ramps it up in time (school run is a classic example), the cracks start to show quite quickly. So try not to let that fear drive your responses either.