AIBU to think Marrakesh was far worse than I expected?

I’ve never fancied Marrakesh but I am going in a couple of weekends time as friends are going there for a conference from Australia and I can meet them there. My friend is on her own for a couple of days so we’ll go to a spa and probably a guided tour. Only going for 3 nights and my husband can’t go as he doesn’t have enough holiday. I’m in my 50s so hoping I’m too old and haggard for the men to leer at! Wish me luck

I think you have the wrong poster. I wasn't talking about Morocco.
I was just wondering about the expression that you used "don't suffer fools gladly". I can't see how that matches carrying a Chanel bag and having a mardy face?

I think sometimes, some tourists think they are going to a sort of sanitised theme park, when they travel.
All countries have different history and cultures to ours, their people live there, their governments are different, their way of socialising, and even their class systems may be more marked to ours.

Calling out is that is what their shopkeepers do to attract trade, likewise haggling. They are earnest, probably desperate to make a sale. It's annoying to us as tourists, but it's their livelihood.
Yes, some of their men and boys don't know how to behave around foreign 'independent' women, it is a misogynistic society, this is also a problem in Italy just slightly more refined.

As they are often hot countries, their women are expected to be modest, go out accompanied.

Remember, they too see the Hollywood films, which show 'foreign' women in a different light to theirs. They make assumptions.
As for animal welfare, the donkeys to them are working animals, not pets. Tradesmen who use them are poor, they don't have money for vets etc.
The stray dogs, Sorrento has loads as well, a lot larger abandoned pets! I found it strange, the cats had collared the Medina, while the dogs (they don't bark either) were outside. But, again they are not pets, and are not treated like we would.

Travelling is an experience. Some countries just require more adaption by tourists, especially if you are travelling outside Northern Europe

Fair enough. I would absolutely consider my mixed race dd to be "western" so we are in agreement on that.

I see a lot of women literally looking like they’ve stepped in shit walking around Marrakesh. It’s like they were expecting Dubai and didn’t realise how culturally different Morocco is. If you are in someone’s home walking around with your Chanel bag and looking down your nose at people, you aren’t going to get a warm welcome. Instead learn the language, treat people with dignity be assertive and respectful and you’ll have the best time. I have countless stories and the most amazing friends from Morocco and will go back time and time again. I am sure that if Morocco wasn’t for you, then you weren’t for Morocco so best you stay away.

I would feel safer as a tourist in Marocco then in many cities in the UK.

I went there maybe 25 years ago with my now DH and hated it.

I’m blonde, blue-eyed and experienced the same even though I was travelling with a man.

In the medina I had a man grab me and try and pull me away from DH. DH has hold of one arm, weird man had hold of the other and they were pulling me in opposite directions. It was terrifying. We didn’t feel safe at all the whole time.

I have travelled a lot in similar countries in the Middle East/rural Turkey/rural Africa/India etc where western women get stared at and it doesn’t bother me but Marrakesh was a whole different level where I genuinely feared for my safety.

No. I was not.
I suspected that you were accusing me of that.
I am not white. However, I consider myself to be Western as this is my home and this is the culture I have adopted. It does impact how people treat me back in the country of origin though.
An interesting development of the discussion.

There is also a slight undertone of "couldn't find McVities or Marmite anywhere!!"

One of the things I find convenient but also a bit disappointing about travelling in this global age is that things are often not as different as you might once have expected. The edges are all kind of blurred. In the upmarket areas, the same international brands pop up everywhere, hamburgers can be ubiquitous on tourist menus the world over.

Then when something IS culturally and visually distinct, people complain about that too.

What they are wanting is pretty tiles, stunning sunsets, a few brightly coloured babouches to take home, a tagine made of British lamb and imported bottled water and lots and lots of exotic-looking photos (definitely holding a comatose snake) so they can do a kind of Indiana Jones themed series of posts on their social media.

How can you comment if you went somewhere 30 years ago?

show me a place in the world where men don’t behave like pigs towards women and I will take it back

She is western - born and brought up in the UK. However, I wasn't sure if you were using the term as a proxy for "white".

Yes some people do just want a bit of winter sun. Some want to explore. Explore and you will certainly encounter more local flavour.

yes see it's very simple, if you have a dozen or so young men surrounding you, asking for sex and threatening to rape you, you just tell them..I don't know what exactly, that no thanks you're not interested?

Never felt the urge to go there. I won't be doing so now.

So we can't have racist tropes but it's ok to condemn half of the world's population ?

Was she not Western? I thought she came from a Western European country? Perhaps you live in Asia or somewhere else. Sorry for my assumption if that's the case.

You can, but I travel to see places, not to sit by a pool. What's the point of traveling thousands of miles just to stay in a hotel?

So you’re making a sweeping statement about Turkey which you have never visited. Before making pathetic comments go and visit there! I go regularly and I can assure you women work on reception, in banks, shops. 45% of practicing lawyers are women! I suggest you take a look in the UK, the majority of people working as cleaners in hotels, hospitals and restaurants are women!

I like Marrakesh. There are many nicer places in Morocco but I didn't recognise your experience in my own (apart from the meat strung up in the markets which as a veggie I don't love but it's their normal)

This is something you can apply to many countries - go for the sun, stay mostly in your resort and avoid the shit areas. That was my experience in Goa.

My daughter went there with a man some years ago - the main problem was it was summer and the heat and air quality were very, very bad and they left asap.

I would hate to go. Have never had any desire to go to Morocco, Turkey, Egypt, etc. Nothing about those countries appeals and those who.I know who have been have faced similar issues to the OP. That doesn't sound like a "holiday' to me...

This was lovely. And only tourists there if you need a break from sad donkeys and being induced to buy!

The colours, both in this garden, but Marrakech generally, are startling.

it just feels that this is another of those threads here that, while it may be genuine on behalf of the OP, is going to bring out a lot of racist tropes about Islam and ‘why should we respect cultural differences here then’ kind of pseudo questions.
It’s great to hear so many positive experiences of Marrakesh and Morocco in general.
Men are pigs the world over.