AIBU to question my friend's daughter effectively moving in with us?

What you are talking about is the child coming into care under a section 20 agreement which is where the parent gives consent for the child to go into care. This is not the case here and you are giving misinformation about access to finances and going to panel. The la will only agree to a s20 if there are significant safeguarding concerns but that is not the case here.
a kinship assessment is a different process. You will see in a previous post I made that the child has to have been living in with the carer for at least 12 months to apply to the court for an SGO. In these circumstances, it would be a private application and there it wouldn’t go to panel and it is the LA’s discretion on whether to provide financial support or not. It would only ever become an unregulated placement if the la placed the child there and the carer needed to become a temporary foster carer which is not the case here. I know what I’m talking about as it’s my job

https://kinship.org.uk

This isn’t a private fostering arrangement if she is there for safeguarding reasons. Please speak to the social worker. Kinship care is an organisation who may also be able to help and give advice xxx

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/family-and-friends-care/

You and your husband need to have a discussion about what taking on another child will mean to your family. At the moment it's another mouth to feed, but long-term it's a far greater financial impact. Will taking on your friend's daughter mean your own children receive less? Does it mean going from 1 family holiday per year to zero? Will you need a bigger car? It's not just buying school uniform or clothing... it's everything else from providing pocket money to birthday/Christmas presents!

The child's Mum should provide money to you for her daughter, but I doubt very much that will happen. Your friend is irresponsible, and ultimately selfish, because she prioritises her own need for a man in her life, over the welfare of her children.

Having the girl stay weekends and holidays, is not the same as permanently. She has lived in a chaotic household, and my guess is that her Mum has been preoccupied by 'Steve' to worry too much about what she's doing/where she's going/who she's with. She may relish routine, boundaries and be perfectly happy living within yours but what if she isn't?? What if you start seeing a side of her that you've not seen before? Living in the environment that she has, I would be surprised if that's had no impact on her at all.

What about medical appointments? Speaking to the school etc? You don't have parental responsibility, so technically her Mum would need to give you permission or attend these herself with her daughter.

Make sure you speak to SS. Write down things you want to ask before the meeting on Wednesday. Ultimately, your priority has to be your own children, and if you and your husband decide that temporary housing her will be OK but not long-term or not housing her at all.... that's OK, you're not a terrible person.

I think if she is staying with you they possibly do not need to follow bedroom rules. If you apply to foster her and are paid then there would be rules around bedrooms. I would think carefully about what you want/need as a family. Definitely stand your ground about the younger children hopefully they can stay with their aunt. Your “friend” needs to take responsibility and stop expecting other people to bail her out.

You are amazing to even be considering this OP. There is loads of good advice on here already. I would urge you to only take this on if it can be formalised in some way so that Sarah’s daughter has the status of a looked after child and the support and financial resources that she would then be eligible for - such as counselling etc should she need it in future.
It is easy to focus on what is best for the 12 year old - but this must be balanced with the needs of your own children - and your husband would definitely need to be on board. It is certainly possible for things to all work out fine in the long term and I really hope that is the case 💐

SS however asses each of the kids needs individually so while it could possibly be ok for the younger ones to remain in the care of Sarah, the 12 year old has different needs. She might run away and be at risk of grooming if her friends mother can't continue to care for her.

This is why I think these casual unofficial arragements with friends are quite often not a good idea. Relatives are different. This child may get settled in for a few months then op decides it's too much. Then this childs life is turned upside down again.

I dont think ypu should do it.

Firstly, a 12 year old doesn't get to choose a new home. Her aunt can take her and keep her with her siblings and that's in their best interests.

The more distance you can create from your "friend" the better for stabilising your own family.

Absolutely encourage the 12yo over as a friend, but do not under any circumstances take her on as a foster would be my advice. Aside from the unforeseeable impact on your own children, the closer she becomes to.ypur family, the further she will pull away from her own (siblings). You're already seeing that with her choosing you over the stable aunt. That's not in her best long term interest.

Heaven forbid you take her on and her and your dd fall out catastrophically. Your dd will be devastated living with her and if you take her on, you can't just move her out again because it would be exceptionally cruel and damaging. It's literally conditional love.

Eta- having your relationship stay as it is with the 12yo is probably the best stability you can offer and shouldn't be undervalued or confused.

This is a common scenario where I work so is absolutely true! The threshold for 'removal' of the child might not be met however an assessment still needs to be completed which the outcome might be that it's not in the child's best interests for them to return to parents care given the chaos at home (and possibly other risks). In this situation, the mother is giving consent for the child to live elsewhere and therefore LA doesn't need to go to court.

I have personally had a case with the exact same scenario where a young person remained living with friends parents as they refused to return home and child's parents were happy with child remaining there. Eventually the friends parents became kinship carers and received full fostering allowances from the LA.

Maybe it varies depending on the LA!

My priority would be to my own kids. Particularly my 12yr old. Quite frankly I’d want to keep her away from this shit show and thinking this is a reasonable way of conducting your life and relationships.
Whilst its very admirable that you want to help I can’t imagine itll be a smooth journey from here to adulthood for the poor kid, but I still wouldn't want to get my DD tied up in it all.
You should have ditched your feckless friend years ago…

My mum was almost in a similar position at this age. My best friend was the youngest of 4 children (other children much older), single mother, working multiple jobs, child neglected and in hospital on and off. It ended up with DM not fostering her (too much drama) but just being supportive and welcoming her into our home.

I’d go ahead with this but through proper legal channels if you can.

My best friend unofficially fostered a 9 year old girl when her kids were similar age, the child’s mother agreed, it worked for a few years until the girl was 16 and moved out.,

If SS are happy for the younger 2 to go home, they would be happy for the eldest to go. If the eldest doesn’t go, and SS are happy you a a safe home, thy may allow her to stay with you. But as they are happy for the kids to go home, this would mean that the eldest staying with you would essentially just be a arrangement between you and the mum, SS wouldn’t give you any support, financial or otherwise (I guess they would check in occasionally, as the kids are now known to them).

OP, my concern would be that at the moment it’s only food, the financial burden will increase as the girl gets older. You will have to fund things at the same time for not just one child but two. School uniforms, trips, treats etc. Is your own daughter going to become resentful when you start to refuse her things? You are going through a honeymoon period, when the girls start to get on each other’s nerves; when you have to discipline the girl; when your daughter wants other friends over, what then?

Social services would struggle finding a placement for 3 siblings together, it would be a struggle finding a foster family for the 12 year old even alone, she could end up in residential care. As nice as it would be for them to stay together, it may not be realistic. If I was you, I would keep the 12 year old and talk to social services about making the arrangement formal if you feel you can manage. It would be preferable for her to have her own room but given she has moved in with you off her own back rather than social services placing her there it shouldn't be an issue. They do make exceptions on own bedrooms for family and friend placements.

@thesunisnearlyhere It is a massive decision with future implications which you obviously know - but I want to say, this is the most heart-warming post I have read in a very long time and I hope it works out for you. Whatever the outcome, you have gone above and beyond ❤️

I think you are brave and kind to consider having your daughter's friend living with you full time. One thing that would be concerning me is that what would happen if your daughter and her friend fall out? They will be teens soon and as a previous poster pointed out the hormones haven't kicked in yet, but when they do the two girls might develop emotionally, socially and physically at different rates and no longer have so much in common. I remember acquiring a completely different friendship group on transition to high school. Do you think their relationship would survive the possible change from friendship to a more sibling relationship? Your daughter may feel that what seems fun at 12 having your bestie living with you, might feel not such a good idea at 15 if their interests have diverged.

I had a similar situation as a teen. No social services involved, I just quietly moved in with my friend's family.

They just treated me like their own kids in terms of homework rules etc. I appreciated the normality and stability at the time, I don't think I caused them issues.

However there was a poster above who mentioned always feeling like you owed someone a favour - I do remember feeling like this too. It wasn't ideal, but it was appreciated and what I needed at the time.

It's funny I've never thought of it in terms of being fostered before, but I guess that's exactly what it was.

OP - you're doing a lovely thing.

That should have said I complete Private Fostering assessments as part of my role, although I complete SGO assessments too!!

I wouldn’t. Awful for the kid but you have to look after your own children. What happens if they fall it. Which they will at some point! It’s not two 12yo girls, it’s two 16yo girls you have to worry about.

You are entitled to financial support but more importantly with that comes assistance for independent living, further education etc for the girl so it’s not just about you being able to manage financially in the shorter term. It’s about all the additional costs such as clothing and independence as she grows older. You are a good person but don’t let it be taken advantage of by social services or your friend. I would ditch the friend as she has her priorities all wrong and this could have further impact upon your family. Look into all the options.

I feel really sorry for this child ..and for you in a difficult situation.
I can understand why your friend's child wants to stay in your far more stable home with your children and you have been very kind in allowing her to stay so often.
But what of the future? She is only 12years old so if it becomes permanent you have a long road of caring for her ahead. How would this pan out in the future? She will have massive insecurities and her mother is likely to play on them ...come home ..you can't come home ..go back to you ..etc etc
What of teen years? All the usual ups and downs ...and then some...and the impact on your own family

You know what the child wants op ..and the mother ...but what do you want? How much can you take? How far, in your heart if hearts are you willing to commit to this other family's drama?

No one can answer this but yourself op ...and unless you make decisions for yourself social services will go with whatever is safe and easiest for them. Personally I would explore all options with your DH and either say to this poor kid ...you are welcome to stay here at weekends/some of school holidays etc but you really have to live with your own parents ...or I would get an official foster child arrangement made .
There is little extra expense at the moment but if she ends up staying permanently, it's not just food, it's clothes, holidays, pocket money, Christmas presents, outings. Also if officially fostering you and the child are supported if the mother kicks off or problems occur in the teen years. Thinking long term, I have no idea what I would do in this situation. 💐

What do you mean? "what can I say to her"

She sees you as her scape goat, I know its all very well she's your childhood friend, but what I haven't seen mentioned throughout this thread is What about your 4 Kids? You have a 3 very young children, you have your hands full.

You need to put your own children first. Its all very well being kind, but now you have find yourself and the centre of their toxic drama and have been pulled right into it.

That child is only 12, what happens when she hits the teenage years, she has a lot of baggage that you're not trained to manage. I know others are coming on here saying its a really nice thing to do, but you are putting your own young family at a huge risk that you are not even aware of yet.

You need to be strong and do the right thing for your kids.
The first thing I would do is completely break complete contact that that "Friend" .
I know this sounds very tough, but a 12 year old doesn't get to decide she's staying in your home. This is only the start of it!

Her mother doesn't want her back, what does that tell you? What happens when she gets confortable in her new environnment and starts kicking off in your home? What does your husband say in all of this.

The longer you keep that child in your home, the harder it will be to remove her, you will never have any peace.

Your friend probably sees this as a temporary fix, she views relationships as always on and off again so to her this is normal. Don’t be surprised when she has to hand over child benefits she starts panicking!
You need to speak to SS as the young girl will be living with you permanently and her family not having parental rights. You want to push for assistance for help with finances because it will get expensive providing new clothes, school uniforms etc and you may need to extend into the loft to give her and your DD a room each.
It might seem mercenary but you need help to give her the space and stability she deserves whilst providing for clothing, hobbies and holidays etc so it doesn’t impact your DC.

Very kind of you but I’d question the effect on my own family unit. You already have your DC. Do you want the emotional and financial burden of another? Supporting another mouth etc? School uniform, endless pairs of trainers, activities? I would want some guarantee of financial support before turning my whole life upside down. Sounds silly, but will you need a bigger car? Will holidays be more expensive? Or compromised altogether? Not that everything is financial, but I wouldn’t want my own DC to go without to satisfy this arrangement. It is dreadfully sad but also not your responsibility.