Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

@Grtscott
You should have switched on voting, then thousands of us could tell you that you are wrong, much more quickly.

That’s not true.

Is it beyond your ken to imagine that there are men who are in fact useless? I married a good guy, but then life happened and he ended up diving into the bottle and completely detaching from family life - no days out, no housework, no parenting, nothing. And we both worked full time, it should have been a 50/50 split. His excuse ended up being that he was brought up 'traditional' (MIL would NOT have stood for that one!). After he left, I had less housework to do because the mess he made was no longer there.

And I have seen far, far, far worse on here.

Also you talk about women being 'in a bad relationship' as if that is a moral flaw in these women. Leaving a bad relationship is actually not all that easy. Maybe you need to develop a little empathy?

How is telling women to expect more from men the same as men being useless. Either we expect too much, or not enough? Pick a lane.

I am confused. Has anyone said your sons are not amazing people? You seem to be picking a fight where none exists.

I have an amazing son too. I don't confuse his individual amazingness- I know that is not a word- with population level statistics.

I don’t give a shit about what people say about me
i am one of 3 sisters, I went to an all girls school
I have 3 sons, I know lots of their friends very well
i work in a senior tech role, dominated by men

the experience on here is not mine, I do not see it at work, in my boys, or their friends
people can sneer, and belittle, call me a handmaiden. That’s about them, if they want their view and outlook that is their prerogative. I will live my life my way, which includes believing my boys are amazing, hard working, polite, decent people.

Even worse being their son. How can you have this attitude and parent a male child, it makes me really sad

I mean… when the bloke cheats, is an addict, abusive (in so many ways etc.) , doesn’t pull his weight etc. what other option in there? Love him straight?

I also think MN is very pro divorce and very against anything other than a 50:50 split in domestic chores and childcare, regardless of hours worked in paid employment.

Absolutely. I’m shocked at the hatred of men on here.

Most of the women on this site must be divorced or in a bad relationship. They think men are worthless and no good. Read the replies can’t image being with one of these women.

Yeah not gonna touch a bisexual bloke, no matter what you say.

Saying something gives you the ick is simply saying you don’t find that trait attractive.

I do agree people can and should be criticised for expressing preferences disrespectfully. But I find women are criticised for merely having said dealbreakers. When women post here to say they only wish to date university educated men / only want to date men who pay for anything / don’t date men shorter than them they are routinely criticised.

I agree with the OP, I think some attitudes to men are horrible here - dismissive, patronising and prejudiced. Some men are toxic. So are some women. Deal with them as individuals. I know lots of lovely men, and lovely women too. I don't stay involved with humans who are horrid, whatever their sex.

And do we think its ok?

Are we teaching our children that is ok?

And if not (which of course not), why would we do this ourselves (nominal we obviously) about the opposite sex.

That's a really good point actually, and I hadn't looked at it like that. Partly because those threads tend to have a strong "men vs women" framework inherent in them, but yes: as well as being a default women's site, MN is default heteronormative and affluent as well. Intersectionality!

I, too. And part of the dilemma parents of sons navigate is how to bring them up against the tide of social conditioning they encounter in the wider world. I find this site useful reading in that respect.

We don't raise our children in a vacuum. But we do have responsibilities. VAWG is at epidemic proportions. 2-3 women a week are murdered at the hands of men, usually as a result of intimate partner violence. IMO, anyone shouting the odds against allegedly 'man-hating' mumsnet is deliberately closing their eyes to the salient facts.

These men, these abusers, are someone's beloved sons. And there's a frighteningly high number of them. It should give pause for thought rather than instigating an immediate pushback against anyone pointing out these unpleasant, uncomfortable truths.

Love the screen handle, BTW!

I'm not a fan of negative stereotypes about low earning people, or those based on sexuality either. However I'm not inclined to see this as a sex based issue, as in something women (because they are women) do to men (because they are men). Rather something more privileged people do to the less privileged, and heterosexual people do to people who aren't heterosexual. So prejudice, yes. A sign of sexism of women towards men, no. Because the 'ick' isn't to do with their maleness, its to do with their class/wealth/sexuality. A different type of ism.

The "ick" threads are mostly not about appearance (see: low earning, bisexuality). They're about a masculine ideal just as much as MRA threads about women's appearances are about a feminine ideal.

And again it is the way in which men who fall short of that ideal are talked about, not an individual woman's preference. I personally am not attracted to ginger men. I don't go around talking about that or trying to justify that - I simply don't sleep with them. If I posted online or said out loud that ginger men give me the ick, then I would be a massive twat - and that is what the red flag would be. (See the poster a few above you who implied that bisexual men are riddled with STDs, for instance, and who equated "low-earning" with "lacking ambition".)

Men have had it their own way for millennia,now it's about time they started to realise that it's not always all about them.

I’ve only ever been involved with good and caring men, so I just ignore most of it. Base your views on your own experiences.

No, I'm not willfully misunderstanding. However, just as misandry isn't the equal opposite to misogyny, nor do I think we can just flip the sexes when it comes to commenting on appearance and frame women as just as much of a problem as men in this regard.
For one thing, the number of women who prioritise appearance in men over other traits such as decency and good character is pretty small. On the 'ick' threads it's nearly always even, if not out weighed, by posters telling the woman off for being shallow.
For another, in our society a man's appearance is far less important than a woman's. Men can 'get away with' being conventionally unattractive, short, old much more easily than women. Appearance doesn't define them.
In what way do you think not wanting to date a bi sexual or low earning man is a 'massive red flag'? What about a woman does it flag up in your opinion?

And the kind of men who do that are twats. Something I've told them in person and online.

I'm surprised that only five people agree with you, I expected a lot more. It does sound like Mumsnet is the wrong place for them (and you) though, if they are spending time mainly on threads about men. There is so much else going on here as well that they seem to have missed.

Do you think that male dominated websites need a louder voice? What is it you think we are not hearing about men in the media?

Also wondering why you name-changed for your OP.