Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

Agree with all of this. I particularly loathe the pervading attitude that any man who works with children or wants to must have a dodgy ulterior motive.

Yes thats the person starting the thread though

I think OP is talking in general (and Im referencing this), about the other posters replying and the general tone

Only if you do it in a misogynistic way that puts women down. Both those women - as is the case for many women in the public eye, especially left wing ones - have been given horrible demeaning nicknames like 'Rachel from Accounts' and much worse and highly sexualised for Rayner. I've never heard anyone referring to Nigel Farage's cock in any context whatsoever - he may be called a cock but that's not the same thing. In a world where women are still structurally oppressed and subject to systematic misogyny, there's a distinct difference - in the same way as you can't be racist towards white people (can open, worms everywhere).

🍿

It might be useful to think about it in terms of the kind of posts on MN. You’re obviously not getting people coming on to post “my DH always does his fair share, we never argue and he cooked a great dinner tonight”.

People are posting when they are frustrated, need to vent, and feel their DH is being useless or worse. Logically people will agree and share that frustration.

You can’t possibly think that is representative of everyone’s relationship, or day to day experience.

Exactly. And I agree with you about the misandry, though some on MN will tell you there's 'no such thing'.

I agree. There's a lot of double standards, there's a lot of anger and negativity towards men in general. Of course, it's easy to get sucked in. VAWG is a serious problem. Misogyny is a serious problem. But I feel like the prevalent anti-men attitude misses the point. Misogyny and the macho culture in society harms men and boys in different, but very valid ways. We can't tackle it without them.

I teach and I can see so much misogyny and poor behaviour from boys that really stems from self esteem. They don't feel manly enough. They are expected to act a certain way, dress a certain way, believe certain things, or society will say they are not good enough. Men who are effeminate, physically weak, or don't conform are punished in a way that I don't think women are.

I think about recent threads which advocate for banning all men from childcare settings. Threads on which people lose their collective minds when boys want to wear a skirt/leggings/ballet pumps. Threads full of women saying they wouldn't date men who can't drive, or don't earn enough. Oh, and threads which state men and women can't be friends. (My best friend is a man and my husband had a 'best woman' at his wedding)

There's very little sympathy for men, and sometimes they really do deserve it.

If you can evidence your extrapolation with robust data, it's valid.

ONS:
Women carry out an overall average of 60% more unpaid work than men.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/womenshouldertheresponsibilityofunpaidwork/2016-11-10

Britsoc:
Men in households where the woman was employed did not do more housework than men in households where the women were unemployed.
https://www.britsoc.co.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2017/march/women-do-more-housework-than-men-even-when-their-partners-are-unemployed/

And there is more. So much more!

Well you certainly are able to!

But you'll be accused of being a misogynist and putting women down, or some such.

PICK ME!

I think the thing that is very different about MN (and that misogynistic men hate about it) is that unacceptable male behaviours are called out for what they are. No excusing or minimising or gas lighting just putting the accountability where it properly lies and not asking women to make be responsible for men’s behaviour. And thank goodness for that.

Never tell me I haven't been able to bitch about how shit Angela Rayner and Rachel Reeves are...

I partly agree with you op and I’ll get to why in a minute. But I’ve also been on mn for a very long time. And until quite recently, it was one of the most amazing places for quietly organising help and support for desperate women in terrible situations.

I wanted to write a thesis about it ten years ago but the ethics committee came to the conclusion that it could be harmful to the greater good to explicitly explore the mechanisms of support in a non related setting, and risked exposing vulnerable people, so I had to drop that.

Most other websites give terrible advice to women in dangerous situations. I don’t disagree with you that MN, on balance may give bad advice to women in fundamentally good relationships. But there are literally hundreds of sources for us to choose from.

I agree that there is a bias of negativity and suspicion towards men here, and in the normal ups and downs of life, seeing the best in each other is generally a good idea.

However in the context of of abuse, a woman’s capacity to recognise normal is often badly eroded, and having posters pick apart the fairly innocuous op, has often led to horrific revelations that she hasn’t been able to contextualise.

significantly this is a phenomenon of social media specifically - it doesn’t occur in the same way in general conversation outside of the somewhat artificial zones like counselling, therapy and group support.

What MN was doing exceptionally well years ago, and now to a lesser extent because of targeting by bad actors, was saving lives.

It’s not happening in a systematic or organised way anywhere else online. Just MN.

Late to this, but no, men do it all by themselves. Women are more able now to discuss these things thanks to forums like this.

Weirdly men have had plenty of opportunities to absorb this information and evolve, but are largely choosing to double down to the point where most women would choose to be alone in a wood with a bear rather than a random man.

Too many men prove time and time again how shit they are. It’s taken a while but women are now listening and believing.

Oh I forgot about Fabricant. Yes, muchly.

Sunak yes.

There always were. Men most definitely haven’t got worse. I look at our sons and their contribution to domestic life and it’s way greater than my generation. My parents’ generation was worse again.

Boris, Michael Gove, Matt Hancock, Michael Fabricant have all come in for it too. Rishi Sunak did to a degree - and especially mocked for his height. Plus Keir Starmer is often ridiculed for his nerdy, reedy voice, rather than focusing on what he actually chooses to say with it.

I call it the dump and leave method - I sometimes do it if I can’t be arsed to argue

Lol

Johnson, Reese Mogg (or whatever his name was), Gove to name some off the top of my head

Im out of date as I got so fed up with politics that I drifted away from it so I cant think of more recent names, but it goes back further than the Johnson government anyway

Oh Hague, he was another one that people were quite overt about his physical presence/appearance.

I'm also a far left feminist and agree with much of your post. The lack of any acknowledgement of intersectionality and compound disadvantage is frustrating to me at times.
However, I find my opinions to be formed not only from my beliefs, but also from patterns I've noted, that dont necessarily sit neatly alongside them.
An example from your post is the men and women friendship issue. I completely agree that people shouldn't be forced to form friendships based on their sex. However I also know that the formation of opposite sex close friendships with an emotional connection can form a significant threat to a marriage. So while the theory is sound, the practical application can, and does cause problems.
Because whether we like it or not, sex is often a key element in the relationships between men and women. Men often use friendship as a gateway to sex. Friendship between two people who are physically attractive to each other often does lead to sex.
I think agreeing with a woman concerned about her husband's new friendship with his female colleague that she may have reason, and confirming her right to set boundaries, while not 'feminist' in the theoretical sense, is an everyday working feminism that may serve as a protective factor against a woman being unwittingly mistreated.

Totally agree OP, I’ve felt the same with my OH at times after reading on here, and I really don’t want to be that picky moany person who complains about the slightest thing.
We all have our faults and marriage is definitely a two way street, not that you’d think it at times on here.

I disagree op. It’s men that
have got worse over time and the only thing women have done is allow it. They get called babies as a lot of them are. Yes l, there are lovely ones, absolutely. There’s a lot of low quality men about these days imo.

I get what you mean, @Grtscott. There's not much nuance on MN and plenty of black and white thinking in attitudes towards husbands and male partners. I often wonder how many posters who've been encouraged by the baying mobs to blow up their marriage over a small matter that could feasibly be resolved end up regretting it.

You know you don't have to argue your case.

You can just go on a thread, post your opinion and then ignore all the posters who quote and @ you.

I only say this because I used to do the same. Not post because I couldn't be arsed with all the follow up posts I'd have to reply to. It was like a lightbulb going off when I realised I could just ignore them.

Try it now. Go on, ignore me, I dare ya 😂

I haven't see male politicians demeaned that way apart from Trump.